Tuesday, February 13, 2007

The geyser erupts

As a recent commenter pointed out, Mickey's latest rant against the regional tourism initiative (tourism MRI) has the usual overtones of furious Reich-building, insisting the problem is that 15 people are involved.

Less is always more when speaking of "democracy" in Laws World. Why have 15 people contributing when you can have just one visionary leader telling the Herrenvolk what's good for them?

Rory Smith, owner of Tamara Backpackers pointedly commented that, before bursting forth with such an opinion, it would help if Mickey understood tourism "but unfortunately he doesn't".

These demonstrations of the complete ignorance of Michael Laws about any topic on which he comments are becoming so passé that we can barely overcome our ennui to muster a post. "Mickey mouths off again" has a certain sameness to it after the 100th post on the topic.

But this is a little different, Watchers. Because sometimes, for reasons best known to Mickey and whatever counsellor he's seeing (and we can only hope he's seeing someone), he decides to try and reinforce his criticism with personal attacks.

Not content with merely saying he thinks the tourism MRI is rubbish, he over-reaches himself by needlessly alleging that the logo designers plagiarised the thing:

Mayor Michael Laws today said that the tourism MRI (major regional initiative)... "is an exercise in flim-flam that won't deliver one additional visitor to Wanganui. It has been botched from day one and is so far behind because Velocity, the initial consultants responsible for creating the regional brand, actually plagiarised another commercial brand! And their contract was allowed to continue!"
We can only repeat our gratitude to Jonas over at the NZ Games Forum for coining that picturesque description of Mickey "spouting opinion after opinion like a vomit geyser" so we don't need to struggle to encapsulate in a sentence the activities of the last few weeks.

So a major Auckland design firm, who've created iconic brands for clients from Nautilus Wines and Manukau City Council to AgResearch, Winstone Agrregates and Fletcher Construction, whose work has made the cover of Ad Media, decided to risk its entire reputation by producing a cheap knock-off of someone else's brand?

Figuring the Chron would never bother running anything that wasn't a pre-masticated Guyton Street press release, we put the question to Guy Whateley, Velocity's Director: did Velocity knock off a commercial logo to produce one for the tourism MRI? Mr Whatley replied:

Velocity refutes unequivocally the allegation of plagiarism made by Mr Laws. What he says in this regard is wrong. We can only conclude that he has been misled.
Mr Whatley's being nice, of course, perhaps in the hope that Mickey might be persuaded to take his foot out of his mouth and apologise. Fat chance, but then he doesn't know Mickey like we do. We've written back to Mr Whatley to ask what, if anything, the company plans to do about a statement which some might think is clearly defamatory. Watch this space.

Update (10.00pm 14 February): LawsWatch has emailed Uwe Kroll, Ruapehu District councillor and chair of the tourism MRI, with the following six questions:

  1. Did the Board receive, as Mr Laws alleges, legal advice suggesting that the logo provided by Velocity infringed the trademark of any other body?
  2. From whom was such advice received?
  3. At whose behest was it sought? (In other words, did the Board seek this advice because it had concerns of its own, or was it approached by lawyers for another trademark holder?)
  4. If such advice was received, what action did the Board take in this regard?
  5. Did the Board feel that any similarity between Velocity's first design and the trademark it allegedly infringed to have been deliberate plagiarism or inadvertent?
  6. How much was paid to Velocity for its work?
As with the Port of Wanganui debate, we feel the tourism MRI ought to be accountable to the people whom it serves (no, not you King Mickey, "your" ratepayers). So we hope Mr Kroll opts to answer at least the first five questions.

We've also made a third change to the link to Mickey's article, this time to the Google cache of his original statement, since all reference to the allegation that Velocity "actually plagiaried another commercial brand" have now vanished from the Council website, to be replaced by the statement that they "apparently" did so.

For those Watchers puzzled by Mickey's apparent hostility to the tourism MRI, a clue might be found in this sentence of the revised statement:

He had told them repeatedly that "the river and the mountain" were the integral features of the wider region "and it doesn't require a consultant to point that out".
Let's see if we can read between the lines: Mickey scribbled his instructions for the logo design on a square of 3-ply expecting them to be carried out (other people are just at the table for window dressing and to say "yes, Michael", after all) but his ideas were rejected by the other members. Perhaps Velocity ignored his input in drafting their design. And we all know there's none so bitter as a Diva spurned.

Comments on this post are now closed.

56 comments:

Anonymous said...

Let’s see … a defamatory statement appears on the Wanganui District Council in the mayor’s name, made and published with actual malice:

1st defendant: Michael Brian Laws
2nd defendant & publisher: David John Warburton representing the ratepayers of Wanganui.

Let’s hope Kensington Swan have got a good defamation specialist, eh Dave?

Anonymous said...

Are you thick LawsWatch? (don't answer: we know you are).
You can't defame a company, only an individual. Media Law 101.

Anonymous said...

Yeah they did knock off someone's brand - a Maori brand. That's why the MRI canned the mid-2006 launch, you bozo. Everyone in the tourism industry in wangas knows that.

Laws Watch said...

If you're going to keep coming here and lying, anon @ 8.21, we'll start dumping your comments.

"Our defamation law protects the reputation of individuals or companies from unjustified allegations which could damage reputation".

- Mediascape

If you're going to spin for Mickey, get your facts right. Blogging 101.

Anonymous said...

Laws Watch said...

If you're going to keep coming here and lying, anon @ 8.21, we'll start dumping your comments.

Oh don't be so precious Lawswatch. Mickey lies everywhere he goes so why expect him to come here and NOT lie. You're being unreasonable.

Anonymous said...

I understood the brand was delayed because there was unease with the first proposal from iwi,and that this has now been resolved with a new version which has been meeting with excellent responses from those who have seen it.
The Mayors latest comments are laughable given that the new Wanganui brand looks awfully familiar, arent there still some brochures hanging around from years back with a surprisingly similar logo?
Guess there is nothing new under the sun.

Anonymous said...

Everyone in the tourism industry in wangas knows that.
__________________________________

Well that's alright then: bloke down the pub told me, so it must be true.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 8.21pm is right:
You can't defame a company.
Can you name any such cases in NZ, LW?

Anonymous said...

And if the 8.23pm comment is right last night then the mayor has the defences of truth and honest opinion :)
Your helpful legal sprite!

Anonymous said...

And the reason why companies don't sue - taken from Defamation Act 1992:

"Proceedings for defamation brought by body corporate

Proceedings for defamation brought by a body corporate shall fail unless the body corporate alleges and proves that the publication of the matter that is the subject of the proceedings—


(a)Has caused pecuniary loss; or

(b)Is likely to cause pecuniary loss— to that body corporate."


Virtually impossible to prove which is why there is no case in NZ law. You've got to show your revenue dipped as a direct result of the comments AND prove the two were related events.

Your helpful legal sprite.

Bearhunter said...

Why does everyone on here immediately come out with a shrill cry of "Liar, liar pants on fire" ALL the f*cking time? It's tiresome. It IS possible to defame a company so MIckey should tread carefully, especially when accusing a design company of plagiarism.

Anonymous said...

Well done Lawswatch. Mickey's defamatory effluent has now been removed from the WDC website.

I hope Velocity sue the shit out of you, Michael.

Not that it's hard getting shit out of you.

Anonymous said...

Funny that anonymickey here is so confident he can get away with libel yet the libellous item has been swiftly removed from the council's website. Obviously Dr Warburton and the council's lawyers disagree with their mad mayor.

So, Mickey, did Dr W tell you not to do it again?

Anonymous said...

Defenses against charges of defamation available to Michael Laws:

"I'm a fuckwit. No-one in their right mind takes me, or anything I say, seriously. I couldn't damage your potential future earnings because I'm irrelevant."

Diminished responsibility as a consequence of mental illness.

"I was the mayor when I made that statement, so the ratepayers should foot the bill."

Anonymous said...

Virtually impossible to prove (corporate defamation)

But quite easy to see that it has happened, that Wanganui District Council and the fuckwit Laws are responsible for it, and that they should immediately apologise and issue a statement correcting their mistake.

Instead, they're determined to let Mickey's mouth run away with him again in more press releases. Now he's bleating about "my ratepayers".

What an asshole.

Anonymous said...

Don't know where this blog gets its info from but the posting on the mayoral website about the MRI details some pretty scandallous stuff at the MRI. It does not look like he's worried about defamation to me.
I'd go back and check that denial from Velocity, Laws Watch.
Mayor: 1
LawsWatch: nil

Anonymous said...

The legal rep's advice is right.
I did media law at uni and the lecturer said that it was a waste of time for a company to sue.
He said if you want to escape a slander suit then leave the names of anyone in the company out.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Velocity should be reading Mickey's website - the offending remarks are there in more detail than on the WDC website.

Velocity certainly run the risk of losing business over it, especially considering how much effort goes into becoming a supplier to govt. funded projects.

Of course, if Mickey were an honourable man a simple apology and retraction would probably suffice.

If only the mayor of Wanganui weren't so incompetent and corrupt.

Laws Watch said...

anon @ 5.59: We're not a law firm, so we don't have free access to case law or law clerks to do our research. But we refer you again to Mediascope, which clearly says:

"You may be committing defamation if you publish material which tends to lower the reputation of a person or company 'in the minds of right-thinking people.'"

anon @ 6.06 is correct - a company has the added burden of demonstrating that the libel has the potential to cause a loss (it doesn't have to actually point to a declining profit).

But we doubt a right-thinking jury would have much trouble determining that an allegation that a design firm knocks off it's designs has the potential to cause that firm a loss.

Mickey's defamatory effluent has now been removed from the WDC website.

Not to worry, anon, we've saved a copy if Velocity missed it ;-) Because this isn't the first time Mickey's defamation has been whipped from the WDC site with nary an apology. They had to do it when he made a cowardly allegation about someone he thought was associated with this blog.

Too bad the law doesn't make allowance for the WDC's "we were too gutless to say no to Mickey, then even less gutless to stand by what he said" defence.

Anonymous said...

LawsWatch - can't you read?
It's not only ON the WDC website but includes even more detail.

I think you're a bit of an idiot over Velocity.

You accepted a basic denial by Velocity as FACT. What sort of journo does that?

Laws has provided a lot of info on his website, so I'd out all those allegations to them. He obviously has SOMETHING to base it on so getting excited about defamation action is very premature.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 2.39pm - Mate, get over it.
Are you in love with the guy or something?

Laws Watch said...

You're right, anon @ 3.58 - the statement is still on the WDC's website. What confused us (and several commenters) is that the original statement, linked to in our post (now updated to the correct link) had been removed. In effect the story has been shifted to a new address.

We have invited Verocity to make further comment.

Anonymous said...

And the continuing story on the $60,000 containers (in the previous post) from someone who lives across the road. Guess what................... They don't work !!!!!!

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with the earlier comment on Velocity. As Christine Keeler said, they would say that, wouldn't they?
Michael Laws for all his faults is not stupid and he will have a lot of evidence given that his council is a member of the tourism MRI for the claims he made.
When I checked my council friends today they said that his council pays $ every year as a partner in the MRI so he will certainly know what is going on. My advice (and I'm not a very good advice person but here goes) is that Lawswatch should give this one away. The mayor has been accurate before with the port and Tuffy Churton and this looks very similar.
I dont claim to be a medium or whatever but when Rob Vinsen writes publicly in support of the mayor then he is probably right.
I followed the link to the Velocity web site. It was very secretive with no photos of any of the consultants and a snail that slimed across my screen. That is not a good sign.

Anonymous said...

VeLocity. Not Verocity.

Anonymous said...

"someone who lives across the road."

should move. If you don't like the way the Mayor runs this town, leave town.

Anonymous said...

We have invited Verocity to make further comment.

Hope you got their name right :)

Anonymous said...

What is going on at WDC when the story gets removed from the recent news posts but is still available on the website in "Media Releases"?

On the one hand the removal of the Mayor's noble and wise attack on those Auckland wankers seems to be the work of cowardly custards, but then to leave it up under a new address suggests what? That they daren't remove it completely in case Mickey calls them horrid names?

Laws Watch said...

Thank you velly much, pedants ;-P Yes, we wrote to VeLocity.

anon @ 6.35, let's say your truly touching belief in the intellectual might of one MB Laws is justified and he is right that the tourism MRI is a waste (we're reserving judgement on that) and that Velocity knowingly jeopardised its reputation by simply knocking off another design.

Given that it would be very hard to prove that a designer saw a particular design before producing his own - and thus that the similarity wasn't mere coincidence - wouldn't it have been the prudent course for the Mayor to simply say "I don't like the logo, it's too close to, and thus likely to be confused with, this one over here".

But instead he exposes the WDC - and thus ratepayers - to the risk of a lawsuit. Why? To stroke his own flaccid ego.

If he feels the need to assert his own potentcy he should do what every other sad middle aged man does and get a muscle car. Oh, wait...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"someone who lives across the road."

should move. If you don't like the way the Mayor runs this town, leave town.

6:37 PM, February 14, 2007

*****

That's good. So Mickey is now accepting responsiblity for the dumb container wall that doesn't work ... that's how he "runs this town".

Anonymous said...

Actually, Lawswatch, you appear to have let Mickey the flim flam man put one across you.

What Mickey the mad mayor said yesterday on the council website:

"... Velocity, the initial consultants responsible for creating the regional brand, actually plagiarised another commercial brand!"

And what Mickey the gutless butt-covering mad mayor said today (after pulling down this piece of vomit and recasting it to suit the council’s lawyers - and what has that added to the ratepayers' legal bills for the year?):

" ... Velocity, the branding consultants, apparently plagiarised another commercial brand."

So a quiet word to Mickey the “anonymous” mad bullshitter who lurks on this website: Bugger off!

Anonymous said...

Having, unlike most, who have posted here knowledge of the facts in this issue one can only remain utterly discusted at Laws attempt to mainipulate the written word to his own ends. Some facts;
Laws has and remains completely against the MRI.
He is on record as dooming it to failure.
The notion of plagarism is completely false, and is based on the MRI's concerns that an earlier proposed solution was too 'close' to an existing brand. As such it was changed at no further cost to the MRI this is typical of such a brand process.
A proposal is made and criticism and concerns aired, debated and ammendments made where necessary. This process is at the agencies cost, ie get wrong fix it. Nothing too astounding here.
His statement suggests the brand name was Te Ara but fails to complete the name – a diliberate ommission. How Laws can believe any agency would promote the name of the New Zealand Encyclopedia as a new brand for a region is utterly rediculous.

Finally the solution when lauched will, as always be there for public criticism –one hopes it is unique, gain international respect and be good for the region, put that particalur spotlight on Laws?

All of the above is a pack of lies, yet well intentioned so thats OK at least with Laws.

Anonymous said...

Of course Mickey sees no future in tourism for the city or region ... at least not compared with his god-like "vision" for events like the Boxing Day Bomb or the embarrassingly stupid Wanganui "brand".

Now what did they cost the ratepayers again??

Anonymous said...

anonymous said
What Mickey the mad mayor said yesterday on the council website:

"... Velocity, the initial consultants responsible for creating the regional brand, actually plagiarised another commercial brand!"

And what Mickey the gutless butt-covering mad mayor said today (after pulling down this piece of vomit and recasting it to suit the council’s lawyers - and what has that added to the ratepayers' legal bills for the year?):

" ... Velocity, the branding consultants, apparently plagiarised another commercial brand."
++++++

Too little, too late Mickey. One assumes the plaintiff's (Velocity's) lawyers have a saved copy of the original and if they haven't it sounds as though LawsWatch can supply one.

It ACTUALLY sounds as if you APPARENTLY have really crapped in your own and the council's nest this time, arsehole.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 8.10pm started ...
"Having, unlike most, who have posted here knowledge of the facts in this issue one can only remain utterly discusted at Laws attempt to mainipulate the written word to his own ends ..."

You know you are lying, anon.

Why not front up with the proof for your claims - let's say some minutes of the MRI.

Laws obviously has them being a member of the MRI. he is obviously waiting for the public denial (an old Winston Peters trick).

So anon @8.10pm.
You claim to "know". Post the MRI minutes for the month or so that Laws claims Velocity got it wrong. And what Laws said (and I quote) was - "Indeed legal advice to the MRI board suggested plagiarism".

And i hope "discusted" is nowhere near this issuie because his illiteracy is the last thing wanganui tourism needs - another speech impediment.

Anonymous said...

What are you talking about LW?

The MRI media release is on the front page of both the council and ML's websites. He isn't trying to hide anything.

Anonymous said...

Hey arsehole at 9.30pm.
Can't you read, moron?
You can't defame a company! The challenge remains for you legal dickheads in here - name a case in NZ defamation law where a company successfully sued for defamation/
I'll make it easy for you.
There isn't one.

Anonymous said...

Small observation;
Laws didn't "withdraw' his comment on the MRI and Velocity.
He ADDED detail to it and very damning detail.

Anonymous said...

As some who work in the industry Laws is so keen to, criticise.,we thought we might put our tres expensive thinking caps on and offer a few slogans, that will be better for the region than any MRI initatives.

Laws for Wanganui- except when on the radio!
Laws for Wanganui – well intenioned lies are OK.
Laws for Wanganui – proud of not telling the truth! backed up by a parliamentery career.

Laws for Wanganui – I can tell the country a pack of lies so local governments easy.

Laws for Wanganui - Whats good for me is good for the region.

All of the above were stolen from existing political slogans but thats OK our intentions are good

Anonymous said...

When the argument goes pear-shaped in here then commenters tend to go animal.
The summation of this thread is very easy. Laws said that the MRI hasnt achieved anything in part because their brand consultants got caught with their pants down.
well SOMETHING has to have gone wrong because the MRI was signed because Laws even became mayor - early or mid 2004 from memory.
He wasnt being personal in his press statement, LawsWatch, thats being silly. He made a political point and backed it with a direct example.
the obvious response, instead of all this abuse in here, would be 'OK, so wheres the proof?" Has anybody actually THOUGHT of asking him that?
As for the poster who said it was all part of the communication process. I didnt think we let those piss-arse marketers and their market-speak in this site. Of course the guy couldnt spell but what do you expect?

Anonymous said...

The lawyer for the Code of Conduct complainants has hung up his dress and his shingle after being found guilty of contempt today and suspended by the judiciary.

A sincere question to any one of the complainants having watched the circus in the council chambers that day.

I thought Moodie was very poor and the mayor ran rings around him. was he goods value, in their eyes, or not? And did they pay him?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Small observation;
Laws didn't "withdraw' his comment on the MRI and Velocity.
He ADDED detail to it and very damning detail.

9:41 PM, February 14, 2007

You're a pathetic butt covering liar, Mickey. You changed the key word and now you're predictably trying to dodge the truth. And no one here has any doubts about who you are and how much you lie.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Small observation;
Laws didn't "withdraw' his comment on the MRI and Velocity.
He ADDED detail to it and very damning detail.

9:41 PM, February 14, 2007

You're a pathetic butt covering liar, Mickey. You changed the key word and now you're predictably trying to dodge the truth. And no one here has any doubts about who you are and how much you lie.

10:21 PM, February 14, 2007

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I hate to piss on your parade anon but I wrote that and if you want to make me mayor then Ill accept the title and the salary.

Anonymous said...

The challenge is still here for LawsWatch and all you other losers:
name a defamation action won by a company!

Laws Watch said...

Has anybody actually THOUGHT of asking him that?

Mickey visits here all the time (no, we don't believe he's responsible for every single pro-Mayor comment in here, as we've stated before). And when he's too busy grandsatnding to make it, some of his acolytes are sure to keep him appraised.

He has a standing invitation (as does anyone else) to contact us to refute anything that's said here and offer evidence if he has any.

Occasionally we might email, as a courtesy, an Auckland designer or a Ruapehu councillor for whom LawsWatch is hardly likely to be regular reading, to alert them of what's said.

But we're not going to email the Mayor every time a post goes up. He can have them emailed to himself, in fact (anonymously) using the free Feedburner service on the main page.

Anonymous said...

Those questions to Uwe Kroll, Lawswatch.
Are you SURE you're not an agent provocateur for the mayor? Because you're doing his bidding nicely at the moment.
Who jumps to who?

Anonymous said...

Just to change the subject a litle.

Guess what!! the Dragon behind the Mayoral desk is leaving, In May I think.

Shit Mickey another one gone.

Laws Watch said...

anon @ 9.40 pm & 10.27 pm - Settle down, pottymouth. We only tolerate your presence to demonstrate the IQ level of some of those who support the Mayor (hint: it's not high).

We're not your personal legal research team. We've made enquiries of people who know more than us (and certainly more than you) on the topic and will report any response as received.

anon @ 11.00 pm - LawsWatch exists to report the truth. We don't have to spin the facts against Michael Laws because they're usually pointing that way anyway. That's why he spins so hard in the other direction. Common sense suggests the truth of the matter probablt lies exactly where anon @ 8.10 has described.

We'd recommend reading that comment carefully for an insight into the creative process. Some Watchers have been through the whole logo design process, and what anon describes is precisely the process we've been through.

If Velocity produced a logo that was too akin to someone else's (and we don't deny they might have done) then it's a common occurence in such execises - there's only so many things you can do with lines and squiggles. There's nothing new under the sun, as Watchers' mums used to say.

Would a reputable design firm risk it's reputation and future income by trying to pass a knock-off as an original? We doubt it.

Anonymous said...

At least no one would claim that that Mickey's pet Auckland "brander" ripped off the Wanganui logo, because it's just toooo stupid to have been used by anyone with half a brain and became a laughing stock as soon as it went up!

Anonymous said...

LawsWatch, you ARE a moron!
Read the WC this morning and spot the lies in what is NOT said.

Anonymous said...

name a case in NZ defamation law where a company successfully sued for defamation
__________________________________

So what if there hasn't been one yet? Do you know if any have been settled out of court? This is a pretty clear cut case. The charge of deliberate plagiarism is a damaging one for any design firm, and has the potential to cause loss of earnings - despite your lies, anonymickey, they don't have to prove an actual loss. But the real issue here is how once again, a combination of arrogance and incompetence has exposed Wanganui ratepayers to more needless legal expenditure. Was the press statement taken off the WDC front page while the lawyers checked it? If so, how much did that cost?

If Velocity sue - and there are many reasons why they wouldn't - win or lose the ratepayers will be footing the bill.

All because of Mickey Mayor and his beloved gobshite.

Anonymous said...

I think this episode neatly illustrates Michael Laws' malice and deceit. He wants to make a political point about the MRI. Fine. I think he's out of his depth, and knows little about the subject - didn't even turn up at their otherwise well-recived briefing, for example. But whatever, he's entitled to his little opinion.

Why express it in the form of a damaging and false allegation against a private company? Is he jealous that they are creative and he hardly knows what the word means?

Bearhunter said...

I like this excuse to have a pop at Horizons from the minor irritant:

Mayor Laws said that although it was a political exercise and designed to make a political point, he was “bemused that the single worst polluter was contained within the Horizons Regional Council transport fleet”.


What I like even better is the reply from the regional council, defending "the single worst polluter" (in reality a Nissan Patrol):

“This vehicle is used by our hydrology team and has to tow, carry heavy loads and travel over rough terrain in remote places," Greg Carlyon, group manager regional planning said.
"This particular vehicle is used during flood events, a Honda Civic Hybrid would not work in a situation such as that, however good a car it may be.
“The survey’s top five most fuel efficient cars are city shopping baskets and not remotely capable for doing the job our SUV’s and utes have to do. It is obvious that city and district councils will use vehicles that are more suited to a city and so have the luxury of being able to choose more fuel efficient vehicles.”


Unless of course Mickey knows better and can tell us how a city runabout can get around, say, Wanganui during a major flood event?

Anonymous said...

The mayor gave some dates relating to Velocity and the MRI in the paper this morning. He then said "legal advice" provided to the MRI suggested plagiarism. those are very specific allegations which Mr Kroll must be able to easily refute by;
1. releasing the MRI minutes in June 2006;
2. denying that any legal advice was received, or releasing it.
If he does that, the mayor is dead so why not urge him to do so??

Anonymous said...

Any answer from Uwe Kroll?

Anonymous said...

He had told them repeatedly that "the river and the mountain" were the integral features of the wider region "and it doesn't require a consultant to point that out". ....

And unlike the world famous architects on the Heart pipedream, he was paying the MRI people mega-bucks to do what he told them. PS Is it true, Mickey, that you topped up the Heart payment with a bit of private cash?