Sunday, February 18, 2007

Plagiarism 101

There's some confusion, understandably, amongst commenters about what constitutes both defamation and plagiarism. That's understandable - no one who visits here, either to criticise or support Michael Laws - appears to have an advanced law degree so can't be expected to comprehend the nuances of either.

So let's see if we can simplify things.

The potentially offending statement is: "...actually plagiarised another commercial brand!"

Several commenters have pointed out that under the Defamation Act, Mickey will have a defence if he can prove that statement to be true. They are correct. Hold that thought.

The Oxford Dictionary definition of plagiarism is "to take and use another person’s thoughts, writings, inventions etc. as one’s own". In other words, intent must be present.

So, for plagiarism to have occurred, the writer or artist must have seen someone elses work and then deliberately copied it - with subtle alterations - and tried to pass it off as their own. Thus for Mickey to succeed with the "truth" defence, a judge or jury must first be convinced that both of those things occurred with the tourism MRI logo. In effect, to prove truth the defendants (one MB Laws and D Warburton (on behalf of the ratepayers of Wanganui)) would first have to prove plagiarism.

And no, a "legal opinion" received by the MRI isn't proof - it's just that, an opinion. And frankly, we doubt any lawyer with even a rudimentary understanding of copyright law would use an inflammatory word like "plagiarised" without at least prefacing it with a qualifer like "possibly" or "appears to be". Even more likely, we think, is that a form of words such as "appears extremely similar to" may have been used, which Mickey the Headline Hunter has warped into "plagiarised". We could be wrong, of course, but we're still waiting for Mickey or Uwe Kroll to release the MRI minutes.

Seems the tourism MRI joins that long list of local organisations: Port of Wanganui, the Splash Centre Working Party, the Council itself... who consider themselves unaccountable to the people who provide them with the money they throw around.

But back tp the topic. If you're thinking that it's easy to prove that a person copied someone else's work, think again. The most famous recent example of just how impossible this is to prove is The Da Vinci Code case, in which the authors of a 1982 book, The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail accused Dan Brown of stealing "the whole architecture" of their work.

Now anyone who's even flicked through both books at an airport bookstore would probably have accepted that there were similarities between the two. But the plaintiffs lost, with the judge holding that any similarity between the two books was due to "unprotectable ideas".

Lest anyone be thinking at this point that "unprotectable ideas" must be confined to very broad concepts indeed, think again. Have a look at these logos, three of which are in common use in Europe and one of which is that of a NZ company:

Michael Laws, Mayor, Wanganui, plagiarism, defamationNone are held to infringe the copyright of any of the others... though The Bruges Group, MTC and Convention Management are politely suggesting that the next country to take on the EU Presidency might like to consider a slightly different design.

Bruges complained publicly when the EU design first came out, but lawyers told them not to bother. Birds in flight are another of those "unprotectable ideas".

Actions for plagiarism are notoriously tricky, because they must prove an element of intent: the second designer did see the work of the first and intentionally copied it and tried to pass it off as his own. Short of the designer admitting this, or a colleague testifying against him or her, it's then a matter of the court's judgement which, in a civil matter, is decided on the balance of probabilities. And the elements copied must not be "unprotectable" which, though not well defined, seems to mean broad general ideas like mountains, rivers, birds in flight and so on.

Thus for Mickey to advance truth as a defence, it would first have to be proven that his allegation of plagiarism were true.

Good luck with that, Mickey.

Comments on this post are now closed.

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's no wonder Mickey only wins support from drongos.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Wonder why Mickey's suddenly putting his boot into mothers-in-law in his Sunday column today?

9:25 AM, February 18, 2007

-----

Be thankful he isn't still prattling on about what it's like taking kids and credit-card wives on Gold Coast holidays.

Anonymous said...

Interesting site, I have been researching something on the Mayor of Wanganui and came across this blog. I'm amazed this all happens in a small sleepy town like Wanganui ? It's all very amusing but strange.

Anonymous said...

Tee hee hee ...
From the Cops Gone Bad blog it appears that Mickey's namesake, a Texas probation officer, has pleaded guilty to ... get this ... "OFFICIAL OPPRESSION". At least the Texas dude comes clean when he gets caught out.



Texas - Scott Michael Laws used to supervise defendants on probation.
Now Laws is the one being supervised.

On Monday, Laws -- a former Tarrant County probation officer -- was sentenced to two years' probation for misusing his authority to try to have sex with two probationers.

"I spoke with one of the victims in the case, and we felt that it was ironic that this person, who was a probation officer and violated that trust, is now on probation himself," said prosecutor Rob Martinez, who handled the case.

Laws' defense attorney, Jeff Kearney, said, "Mr. Laws is relieved to finally have this matter behind him so he can go forward with his life."

Laws, 28, pleaded guilty to a charge of official oppression this week after reaching a plea agreement in state District Judge Mollee Westfall's court. If the case had gone to trial and Laws had been found guilty of the Class A misdemeanor, he would have faced up to a year in the county jail and a $4,000 fine.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7.54pm
This blog really has plunged to the depths when this sort of thing appears. For goodness sake, what has this got to do with ML. And don't tell me to fuck off like you did to Edith in the last posting. Without comments this blog wouldn't exist. There's a thought.

Anonymous said...

Laws watch wrote -

And it wouldn't be up to the Mayor, as defendant, to join us as a party as we didn't act in concert with him. The plaintiffs could opt to do so of course


wrong, bozo. as any journalist knows esp at the wanganui Chronicle, you can be joined in an action by both the plaintiff and the defendant.

if its also true that Velocity LET you publish the so-called defamatory statement then there goes their case in a court of law.

You are VERY ignorant.

Anonymous said...

All that goes on at council and in wangas and this blog gets upset with some non-existent defamation. But you defame the mayor everyday!The difference is that Laws owns his comments and the anonymous cowards here dont.

Anonymous said...

Dear LW,
I am no expert in the law but i read the following in one of your replies.

________________________________

Velocity, however, are well aware of the content of LawsWatch and have been notified by us of the content of posts and have opted not to request that we remove the link. If they were to do so we'd honour that request.

___________________________________


Am i wrong in interpreting that as permission by Velocity to publish the alleged slander on this website? Are they the full quid?
Wouldn't a judge throw out any suit on that basis alone?

Anonymous said...

Hear Sue Pepperell is resigning at council meeting on Monday.

Anonymous said...

A tip for the poor under-resourced overworked Mickey-loving hacks at the Chronic.

They could leave Saturday's front page heading in place for every issue and just change the subject day by day, ie

Laws talks up
ties with varsity

ie
Laws talks up
& just fill in the blank line

and presto, you've got the paint by numbers daily Mickicle and everyone's happy (except those poor misguided souls who expect a real newspaper for their dollar.

Anonymous said...

Are you not guilty of defamation for repeating it?

Anonymous said...

You have forgotten the other defamation defence available to the mayor which is "honest opinion" and that would see him home fairly easily which is a sincerely held view "based upon the facts".
Velocity would not have a hope.

Laws Watch said...

To clarify: Velocity did not give us explicit permission to publish anything (nor would we permit anyone to do so). They have not made any comment on the contents of this blog. We were simply making the point that, should they contact us and request that the offending statement not be linked to, we would honour that request.

Laws Watch said...

anaon @ 10.36: Since none of us here (including you, presumably, unless you happen to be the Mayor or another member of the tourism MRI) have a clue as to "the facts" we can't surmise whether they'd win or lose.

The facts include the two logos (the original and the allegedly "plagiarised" one), the MRI minutes leading up to and covering discussion of the issue, correspondence between the MRI and Velocity, the legal advice supposedly received and stuff we probably don't even know about.

We've simply said that, on the strength of Laws' original statement, Velocity would have grounds to sue. If all the material were in the public arena we (you and us) could form such a judgement but even then we could be wrong - trials tend to be unpredictable.

"Honest opinion" isn't a catch-all defence. Just because we didn't agree with your comment and accused you publicly, by name, of worrying sheep, we doubt our "honest opinion" of your woolly proclivities would protect us from a well-deserved damages award.

Anonymous said...

Edith does get a hard time, doesn't she? But then she can hardly support Laws then complain about foul abusive language, can she? That would mean she's an utter hypocrite.

I think we're in danger of losing sight of the main point of this post. Whether Mickey defames Velocity is neither here nor there IMO - the problem is that the Mayor of Wanganui thinks it's ok to shout his mouth this way in an official capacity - it's clear he hasn't got the first clue about design, or good manners, and he comes across as a complete arsehole. Not for the first time.

Wanganui would be better represented by an answering machine than Mickey.

Anonymous said...

Michael Laws has an "honest opinion"??

Are you for real? He'd get laughed out of court if he tried to pull that one. There's nothing honest about Mickey.

Anonymous said...

But you defame the mayor everyday!
__________________________________

Rubbish! Name one time. You put 'em up and I'll knock 'em down.

Anonymous said...

according to my google.com search, Laws won his defamation trial in 1998 arguing exactly "honest opinion".

Anonymous said...

Wanganui Chronicle, Thurs 15 Feb 07

"Mr Kroll, who is also a tourism industry representative on the board, said the board “refutes unequivocally” Mr Laws’ comments.

“What he has said in incorrect, is misinformed and illustrates a lack of understanding of the regional branding process undertaken by the MRI board,” he said.

+++++++++++++++++++

A very clear public denail of even the incident of misapplied branding.

Anonymous said...

Hear Sue Pepperell is resigning at council meeting on Monday.


########################################

Well that's a surprise! Since she hasn't lived in Wanganui for the best part of a year, why do you think she should be at council?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Hear Sue Pepperell is resigning at council meeting on Monday.

8:27 AM, February 19, 2007

++++++++

If you're reading this, Sue, there's just one thing you should say...

"I publicly apologise to the people of Wanganui for so cynically and dishonestly abusing the democratic system and the voters' faith in that system, not to mention their misplaced trust in me.

"I'm really sorry about the way I and my partner used the Chronicle to perpetuate the lie of our absence from Wanganui.

"Lastly, I am offering to donate every cent of the salary and allowances I have claimed in the last year to a charity that is far removed from the malign influence of Vision party."

Laws Watch said...

Anon @ 4.57 pm - care to provide some links to the articles you found so that others may judge, please?

Anonymous said...

says Mas: "This information is disclosed in minutes from an in-committee board meeting ... which have come into the Chronicle’s possession."

Wonder where the “confidential minutes” handover took place in Mas and Mickey’s little spy vs spy drama? No doubt combined with one of the regular tete a tetes … Could it have been the men’s toilets in St Hill St?

Anonymous said...

EXTRA! EXTRA! Read all about it ...

Laws Watch stiffed by the Chronicle!

How embarrassing, Laws Watch. That the media outlet you criticise the most got the inside story on the MRI, exposed Uwe Kroll and Velocity as liars, and actually proved the mayor's comments correct.

A good reporter does not accept the glib hand off of the company, but investigates and proves or disproves the allegation. Hats off to John Maslin and the Chronicle.

Anonymous said...

Guy Whateley - another Tuffy Churton?

Bearhunter said...

So Sue Pepperell is going is she? Hawke's Bay you reckon?

Anonymous said...

Lawswatch you just got screwed. Do you think Mickey set you up?

Anonymous said...

I have been following this whole MRI debate and my bias was with the criticism of the mayor and his commentary. I now read that he probably understated his criticism and that the case is proven. Can I ask that you get back to Velocity and see what their response is now?

Anonymous said...

Can't wait to see what lies and bullshit anonymickey comes up with on the blog after this morning's blatant jackup with his old mate Mas in today's paper. In fact, anonymickey has probably already worn his little blogging fingers out.

Anonymous said...

YOU'VE BEEN PUNK'D.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Can't wait to see what lies and bullshit anonymickey comes up with on the blog after this morning's blatant jackup with his old mate Mas in today's paper. In fact, anonymickey has probably already worn his little blogging fingers out.

10:29 AM, February 20, 2007

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You sad little shit.
You just got royally screwed by the people you loathe the most - the Chronicle and the Mayor.

Anonymous said...

What, Mas and Mickey cooked up that little thing today just for LW's benefit? Are you for real, are you really accusing Mickey of being that paranoid, and Maslin & The Chron that sycophantic?

If your allegations are true, how pathetic.

Anonymous said...

Bit of an own goal for Mickey, if he really used WDC resources just to make LW look bad. All that effort, especially when you consider his mistaken use of the word "actually".

It would tend to support the oft-expressed view that he's several sandwiches short of a picnic, in fact.

Anonymous said...

What? No comment from Lwatch on the chron's lead story this morning?

Anonymous said...

Sneak preview of tomorrow’s big story in the Chronic:

MAD MAYOR SETS BLOG COMMENTS RECORD
By John Maslin

Michael Laws, well known for causing gratuitous recreational trouble and holding the world record for using an elected position to promote his dying media career, has added a new claim to fame.

Yesterday he claimed the title of the Most Prolific Commenter to a Blog in a 12-hour period.

“If I say so myself, I’m a bloody prolific commenter and anyone who disputes that is a pathetic loser not to mention a wanker,” said Mayor Laws in an exclusive interview with the Chronic’s most sycophantic reporter.

Anonymous said...

MRI: Uwe Kroll must resign now! - 20/02/07
Wanganui Mayor Michael Laws today said that MRI chairman and Ruapehu district councillor Mr Uwe Kroll "must resign from his p....
++++++

This latest mayoral rabid outburst is clearly a good test of the resolve of the council’s dog rangers to implement the policy of termination with extreme prejedice of all dangerous or rushing dogs.

Anonymous said...

Well, I should think Uwe Kroll would be in trouble if Michael Laws had an ounce of credibility.

Laws Watch said...

Goodness, some of you need a cup of tea and a good lie down. If you re-read the postings on this topic you'll see the crux of the matter -insofar as we're concerned - is that the Mayor could have shouted his criticisms of Velocity from the rooftops without resorting to the phrase "actually plagiarised", thus exposing the WDC to the risk of a defamation suit.

That this is so was confirmed by the fact that Council obliterated the original story and replaced it with a toned-down version saying it was "apparently plagiarised".

We don't care whether Velocity's design is good, bad, or ugly. Or whether they're worth the $80k plus change they were paid - that's for the bodies who pay the MRI's bills to decide.

The "scoop" this morning merely reveals that the legal opinion received by the MRI was that in the "worst case scenario, the work was plagiarism or, in the best case, negligence". That, as we've pointed out, is merely an opinion - one with which a court may or may not agree.

As this post points out, it's almost impossible to prove plagiarism even when designs are remarkably similar.

Mickey could have expressed his opinion by saying "The designs put forward were inadequate, derivative and uninspired" (or words to that effect) and conveyed precisely the same message. But he didn't.

Of course he's at liberty to run whatever legal risks he wants to when he's Michael Laws, ratings-challenged talkback host. But as Mayor he has a responsibility not to expose the rest of us to risk.

Got that?

Anonymous said...

So Laws is crowing like he has just exposed Watergate. He want's the Chairman's head - normally he would call for the whole board to resign but that would be too close to home. Muzza and Deputy Dot have been the Council representatives on the MRI board, in Dot's case, right from it's first meeting three years ago - she even publicised her involvement in the election campaign. Looks to me like Laws want's Wanganui out of the MRI, so he can use the $35,000pa contribution to prop up his pet lossmaking events, the Cooks Garden Concert( $90,000) and the Mayoral Mile ( $64,800)

Anonymous said...

This morning's Chronicle article is of course the complete record relating to this MRI issue. Clearly a newspaper could never be accused of publishing only those details which support their story.

It would seem to me an odd series of events all with their own quantity of smoke obsuring the central issue – alleged plagiarism. Given that boards are made up of people with differing experiences and agendas it is understandable that such allegations could be made, in fact they are just opinions (honest or otherwise) offering them doesn't make them true. Indeed I have sat on boards where utterly ill considered and inappropriate comment has been made and recorded in the minutes only to be subsequently removed for legal, financial or other reasons, but if this is 'found out' one could be accused of a cover up. If they remain (on record) one can suffer the consequencies at the hands of those who wish to fan the fires to their own ends, without the necessary knowledge of events or subsequent decisions taken to remedy embarrassing situations. Simply put minutes can be embarassing as they may record the unwise comment of some. Case in point, if as alleged Velocity were guilty of plagarism, there is no way any board, anywhere would have continued to engage them. So the conclusion could be that it was simply a comment made, a comment of such magnitude and legal implication, that clearly legal opinion would be sort (that's what boards do).

So that opinion offered a range of 'degrees' based on what?. Given the complexity of such claims this seems are relatively naive opinion.

So who's left, the accused, the very silent Velocity, why such silence?. Maybe given the complexity of dealing with such a politically charged, and sensitive job - with such motivated opposition– this is the professional way. Maybe MRI denials are simply embarassment.

At the end of the day, in my experience there is simply (given the visibility of such a job) no way a consultant would risk anything to cause such an allegation. But what a lovely target for the Chronicle and Laws.

Anonymous said...

If you READ (the lessons in the standards you obviously skipped you thickos) you would see from the WC this morning that the MRI CEO Greg Howe got a legal opinion sating "plagiarism at worst, negligence at best."

The MRI chair Mr Kroll said publicly that there was not a problem and is exposed by the WC as a liar.

I saw nothing in the WC that Michael Laws gave them the minutes and if he'd had them then surely he would have delivered them with his original allegations last week.

As for Laws and his allegations he has succeeded in his original purpose (I'm surmising from the various comments) of embarrassing the MRI and proving he is not a player to be played with.

As for the PUNK'D comments: the mayor is clever, but he is not that clever. even he would nopt string along both this blog and the MRI to drop them from a great height. What do you think LW?

Anonymous said...

This whole episode is a classic example that when this Wangas mayor gets nasty, the best defence is to say nothing.
Uwe Kroll set himself up & he deserves everything coming his way if only because he has added to the legend of Laws. Shades of the Sargeant and we all know how that turned out,
Be Christian and turn the other cheek.

Anonymous said...

It is absurd to claim the mayor exposed the council to litigation risk when the secret minutes of the MRI exposed velocity as the frauds they are.

Anonymous said...

Greg Howe seems to have resiled from his position as Mickey's ammunition provider.

Is it because he knows everything Mickey touches turns to shit?

Anonymous said...

So Mickey's now fingering Dr Warbum as the leaker of confidential minutes ... thus removing any doubt that he's just a tool of the mad mayor and cementing Wanganui Council's reputation as a political and executive pariah in local government.

Anonymous said...

Holey Moley!!! Wondering where anonymickey was last night? Wondering why this blog was deprived of his inciseful wit and wisdom?? Turns out our most prolific commenter was in a bar with real people watching the cricket...but surely he must have managed the odd (late) toxic comment or three over his hot cocoa.

Anonymous said...

How can you honestly support Velocity and the MRI after the past two days in the Chronicle?
Has your hatred of Michael Laws blinded you to ethics?

Laws Watch said...

"Support" anon? We're supporting no one in this sorry saga, just as we supported no one in the whole PoW mess (though that didn't stop various anons from making us out to be champions of Tuffy Churton).

As you'll see from the previous post we asked Uwe Kroll questions which he opted not to answer, and the only explanation he's offered publicly is a blanket denial rather than releasing the information which would help people make up their own minds. At best (to borrow a phrase from the lawyers) that's contemptuous of the people to whom he's answerable.

Anonymous said...

Here's a little reminder of life in the real world.

Uwe Kroll need not pay the slightest attention to Mickey Mayor, because Mickey Mayor has zero credibility, has never contributed anything positive to anything in his whole life, and wholly merits the contempt he receives country-wide.

It's as simple as that.

Anonymous said...

Frauds you say (anon 11.40) and this is how it all begins, you know nothing of Velocity's conduct. Just because someone accuses 'Plagiarism' as you have accused 'Fraud' doesn't make it true, its just that you want to believe it and then if someone writes it down somehow that is proof enough for you. Just what Laws thrives on, gets some facts fool you may think you know everything you don't – oh as for the legal opinion – thats a legal opinion based on someone else's opinion, subsequently proved wrong – thats why they continued to work with them, because they (Velocity) did nothing wrong. Clear enough?

Anonymous said...

How can you honestly support Velocity and the MRI

How can you honestly use the word "honestly" in the context of something associated with Michael Laws?

Let's see: who to believe - a design firm saying "we stand by our work" or Mickey Mayor spraying effluent around the place.

It's like the Bush administration - perhaps those rocket parts really were supplied by the Iranians - but would you take George Bush's word for it?

The Chron would, I'm sure.

Anonymous said...

Mickey wanked on and on:

"Mr Kroll could take a step in regaining our faith by tendering his resignation"

Your "faith" is worthless, Michael. You are bad faith personified.

Anonymous said...

What a shame that the huge opportunity that is the MRI is being lost for Wanganui due to the political posturing of your Mayor.
Any regional partnership which tries to work with three districts and the combined iwi groups is going to be a long process fraught with difficulties and frustrations.
And anyone who has tried to develop a brand which meets all needs would know that this also is a frustrating process, I feel sorry for all those pre the current Mayor who worked so hard to pull this tgether and actually obtain the Government funding.
And I feel sorry for Wanganui's tourism interests,they have been patently waiting for a branding they can work with and it seems the opportunity is being pulled out from under their feet by a Mayor who allows his personality clashes with the Chair of the MRI to get in the way of what is best for Wanganui

Anonymous said...

What is all this crap about finally obtaining the MRI minutes,the Mayor has had Murray Hughes and Rory Smith appointed to the MRI Board all the time, surely briefings take place on a regular basis?
The Council was privy to a presentation of the branding late last year so they know what it is and what it looks like, so why is the Mayor now saying it will need to represent the historic River City?
Seems to me he has no understanding of branding whatsoever, and even less understanding of the tourism industry if he thinks urban Wanganui is the drawcard.
Take a trip into 'the Third World' [your quote Mr Mayor]on your doorstep,and observe the steady flow of rental cars, cyclists and campervans taking in the scenery, the history and spending up large on the accommodation and activities along the river.

Anonymous said...

Velocity's work looks awesome. Shows what you can do when you haven't got a worthless fuckwit on the team.

Does anyone still think the WDC logos look anything but dated and embarrasing?

Uwe Kroll and his team should be warmly congratulated on a good job
well done.

Will Mickey Mayor now do his job and welcome their valuable contribution, or will he remain true to his gutter values?

Anonymous said...

Te Kahui Tupua – Chosen Pathway of the prophets.

Awesome.

Anonymous said...

Can you imagine Mickey Mayor presiding anything as exciting as the Te Kahui Tupua brand?

It's hard to get good help when you're worthless and deceitful, isn't it Michael?