Can't hurt, can't help
A rather unkind anon, after accusing LawsWatch of neither reading nor comprehending, reveals that he or she:
...perchanced upon a copy of the new by-law from the nice lady at the council front-desk and the gangs to have their patches banned are specifically named.Well, anon, congratulations. Indeed you beat us - and almost everyone else - to the facts by several hours. At last, though, something has been released from within the bowels of the Guyton Street spin machine. We couldn't read or comprehend what was being kept under wraps, after all.
But the Gang Bylaw is now on display in all it's convoluted glory, and you can even comment upon it. We suspect you're right in assuming:
...there's been some big changes between the by-law proposed at the council committee and the one they finally signed off so I'm betting their lawyers looked it over and met the objections of the Vic Uni academic.In trying to restrict the scope of the bylaw to exclude girl scouts and other menacing potential wearers of uniforms, the bylaw in fact names the gangs to which it applies:
GANGThough we admit it's unlikely, a quick change of name would exempt the gangs from the first part of that definition. It also leaves Wanganui wide open to gangs other than the named four. Then we're left with the tricky problem of defining a "perceived criminal element" associated with a certain group.
(a) means any chapter of the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, Hells Angels, or Head Hunters; and
(b) includes any other group of persons acting or going about together with the following characteristics:
(i) a distinguishing name; and
(ii) a perceived criminal element associated with that group of persons.
But let's leave aside the potentially costly and lengthy legal semantic quagmire for a moment and move on to the offence which the bylaw aims to stamp out, namely the wearing of patches around the town.
GANG INSIGNIASo, no patches (at least, no patches on the back of a jacket) and presumably no bandanas or similar clothing. Assuming we can nail down the definition of a gang and ensure every possible permutation of existing and yet-to-arrive gangs fits that definition, then that definition seems a reasonable catch-all. Of clothing, that is.
(a) means the patch, emblem or badge denoting membership of a gang that is attached to the back of a Gang member's jacket; and
(b) includes the wearing of any colours in such a way that denotes membership of a Gang.
But anyone who knows anything about the development of gang culture knows that their members develop a whole raft of ways of identifying themselves. According to the Polk County Sherriff:
Gang members use hand signs, graffiti, jewelry and tattoos to represent their membership in a gang.Can we next expect a "Bling-bling Blyaw"? And free laser tattoo removal courtesy of the Mayor? And it's not just jewellery and tattoos:
A gang may also wear their "colors", wear certain types of clothing, tattoos, brands, or likewise imprint their gang's name, logo, or other identifying marks on their bodies. Many gangs also adopt certain types of hairstyles and communicate through the use of hand signals and graffiti on walls, streets, school work, and school property.So what's next? The "Wanganui Bad Haircut Bylaw"?
The only reason the likes of Black Power and Mongrel Mob haven't adopted these methods of identification is that they've never had to take off their patches. If this bylaw succeeds in doing that, anyone who thinks they'll hold a quick chapter meeting and decide to disband is living in a fool's paradise.
And no, despite one anon spluttering:
You obviously prefer to have dirty criminal mongrel mob standing over you rather than agree to anything ML suggests... Crazy. No brains....we have no time for the Mongrel Mob or any of the others. But if you believe the Diva's latest piece of grandstanding is going to do anything other than act as a minor annoyance to the source of a major problem, then we'd respectfully suggest that it's not us who are crazy.
Nor is the lack of a patch going to dilute the carefully cultivated menace these ratbags exude. Would you be any less intimidated walking past a group of gang members simply because they weren't wearing patches?
In short, the bylaw will be effective in only one aim - garnering publicity for the Diva, and support from those of an inflamed neck who don't realise just how ineffective it will be.
Lest LawsWatch be accused of being "soft on gangs" whilst trying to point out the innate fallacy on which the bylaw is founded (a.k.a. "doing a Barbara Bullock") we would point out that there are plenty of effective laws on the books which could be used to deal with the problem, yet they're rarely used in these circumstances.
Only the police can answer why that is - perhaps they don't have the resources to process the large number of additional offences that would hit the system if they enforced the letter of these laws. Or perhaps their crime figures wouldn't look so spiffy if they actually recorded offences police choose to overlook.
And that isn't the only Statute which could be used - depending on the nature of the activity, there are others - or indeed other parts of the Crimes Act may apply.Crimes Act 1961
86. Unlawful assembly—
(1) An unlawful assembly is an assembly of 3 or more persons who, with intent to carry out any common purpose, assemble in such a manner, or so conduct themselves when assembled, as to cause persons in the neighbourhood of the assembly to fear, on reasonable grounds, that the persons so assembled—
(a) Will use violence against persons or property in that neighbourhood or elsewhere; or
(b) Will, by that assembly, needlessly and without reasonable cause provoke other persons to use violence against persons or property in that neighbourhood:
Provided that no one shall be deemed to provoke other persons needlessly and without reasonable cause by doing or saying anything that he is lawfully entitled to do or say.
98A. Participation in organised criminal group —
(1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years who participates (whether as a member or an associate member or prospective member) in an organised criminal group, knowing that it is an organised criminal group, and —
(a) knowing that his or her participation contributes to the occurrence of criminal activity; or
(b) reckless as to whether his or her participation may contribute to the occurrence of criminal activity.
(2) For the purposes of this Act, a group is an organised criminal group if it is a group of 3 or more people who have as their objective or one of their objectives—
(a) obtaining material benefits from the commission of offences that are punishable by
imprisonment for a term of 4 years or more...
(c) the commission of serious violent offences (within the meaning of section 312A(1)) that are punishable by imprisonment for a term of 10 years or more...
(3)A group of people is capable of being an organised criminal group for the purposes
of this Act whether or not —
(b) only some of the people involved in it at a particular time are involved in the planning, arrangement, or execution at that time of any particular action, activity, or transaction; or
(c) its membership changes from time to time.
Since so many anonymii misrepresent (wilfully or otherwise, we don't know) the point of posts, we've taken to adding the "slow readers' version" at the end; which in this case is: Assuming it can ever adequately define a gang (which we doubt), the bylaw can't hurt. But don't be deceived into thinking it can do anything much to help, either.
Comments on this post are now closed.
19 comments:
Has anyone seem the Post today? Mr Laws did not get a good write up in the feature section on the gang issue.
Anyone wanting the real oil on the gang ban should pick up a copy of today’s Dominion Post and check out the features section.
In an article headed “Banning gang patches naïve and futile” a Christchurch sociology researcher notes that after an attack on one gang by another (not as it happens in an area that would be covered by the new bylaw) the WDC has come up with:
“… a plan so simple it must be either the work of a genius or the work of Mayor Michael Laws.”
He shoots down Mickey’s desperate attempt to link gang crime with the arrival of P and the absurd idea that banning patches will work as gangs can simply find another form of marker to identify themselves.
“So what we have is a situation Mr Laws does not understand and a solution that would have made no difference.’
“Adding to this, Mr Laws seems intent on attacking anybody who disagrees with him. He has already dismissed two people as apologists and called a respected former police officer an “idiot”.
“THIS POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING MAY MAKE GREAT TALKBACK RADIO, BUT IT DOES NOT ENCOURAGE HEALTHY DEBATE. WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS IMMACULATE POLITICS BUT A POOR WAY OF MAKING POLICY.”
There’s lots more -- it should be required reading for Mickey’s Mice (well those of them who can read, let alone think).
Will copies of the long-awaited LTCCP be available today, as promised? Maybe not. The meeting start got shifted from the advertised 1pm to 4pm and the front office closes at 5pm -- so the thing isn't signed, sealed and delivered by then, nobody will get to see the thing till MOnday morning.
Meanhwile, get the shovels ready for spin by the barrowload from the mayoral office.
It's a stunt beloved of spin fairies everywhere.
A sociology researcher - yeah they're real credible. The guy even admits that he's a "whining liberal"
Yip good reading in the Dom Post today. I'm looking forward to ML's reply. Whatever your opinion, he is doing something.
Yip good reading in the Dom Post today. I'm looking forward to ML's reply. Whatever your opinion, he is doing something.
5:21 PM, April 07, 2006
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What happens when ML looks forward to ML's reply? ML disappears up his own spin machine is what happens.
As for his claim to be "doing something" it's hard to disagree with that. This gang bang gag is making Wanganui a laughing stock around the country and with locals who were initially sucked in by his bullshit.
Go Mickey! I'm sure there must be someone somewhere in Porritt St who is looking forward to hearing what you've got to say next. Yawn!
Anonymickey said...
A sociology researcher - yeah they're real credible.
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There he goes again, shooting the messenger when the logic of what someone is saying is indisputable.
I've read the Dominion piece and it's not only well written but it's relentlessly sound logic.
So bring on the clown in his too-tight lycra shorts. To paraphrase, Whatever you opinion, he's always good for a laugh!!
...he is doing something.
What, you call wasting ratepayers money on a by-law that will be of no use whatsoever "doing something"? That isn't doing something. Unless "trying to get more than 1.6% radio audience" counts as "doing something".
He's a clown, and you're a dupe.
Is it too late, do you think, for the mayor to add the burka to gang patches etc the banned list?
Mickey's mate, the rabid cop apologist Greg O'Connor says clever criminals will disguise themselves in black top-to-toe burkas and commit all manner of anti-social offences.
(That trendy bleeding liberal John Campbell did an hilarious send up of this latest piece of nonsense from Gormless Greg on his show last night.)
Given the warnings we're hearing that the bylaw will just make gangs find new outfits, the burka would be really useful for stashing P and dope etc and going out to deal in Mainstreeet.
And while he's at it, those Pius X priests and nuns who for some reason bring Mickey Mayor out in a rash could well sneak downtown and try to recruit novices into their gang.
Then there's the Brethren women with their head scarves. Scary, eh Mickey and surely worth adding to the banned list.
Where oh where will it all end?
The dearth of comment (so far) on this post probably indicates that most readers see the gang drama as the resourse-wasting distraction/squeal for attention it really is. Is there a way to find out how much of our rates money has been spent on legal consultation for this sort of crap? (Remember the illegal logging drama?)
Some of the 'Heart' con$ultant$ came back to town recently. How about that? Can we find out how much of our rates have been dribbled away chasing that fantasy?
It should all be itemized somewhere under a heading 'Publicity For The Mayor'.
Why so quiet?
All Duttons Anonymice away on holiday?
Wanganui or Whanganui, just read my Sunday paper, you guys voted in a nasty piece of work, he's just so mean.
Nothing positive about having him as your main man. Wake up!
Anonymice? That's funny, anon. Problem is mice get into everything, breed like crazy and are impossible to get rid of.
I have changed my mind, you have convinced me, you are absolutely righ. The bylaw is a waste of time. We should just go on leaving the gangs to ride roughshod all over us. We should not stand up to them. We should invite them to tea to discuss them not being naughty anymore. Makes perfect sense.
If Mickey wasnt's to ban something mabe it should be himself poncing around the council building in his tight lycra shorts. That must be bordering on sexual harrasment. Then there is the tantrums he throws.That must border on verbal abuse. Come on Mickey have a good look at yourself before telling the rest of us how to behave.
"Any submitters to the annual plan – who want the council to spend more money on their particular interest – should note that the only way to achieve their preferred spending is by lifting rates." - M Laws
___________
Isn't it nice to see our mayor going into the submissions process with an open mind as required by the act.
But hasn't he forgotten to mention something .... the reasons for the rates being where they are include a borrowing and cash for multimillion dollar swimming pool, a magic million for new library books and a marina that has blown out all over the place.
He's not even bothering to disguise the fact that anyone who is not a vision supporter will be pissing in the wind if they take the time to make a submission. The warning apparently only applies to non-vision supporters.
We should just go on leaving the gangs to ride roughshod all over us. We should not stand up to them. We should invite them to tea to discuss them not being naughty anymore.
Have another cuppa and a nice lie down anon. Then read the post again - not the one you think we wrote, the one which suggests that instead of relying on Mickey's toothless grandsatnding bylaw, the coppers start enforcing the Crimes Act properly, and locking these ratbags up rather than asking them to improve their dubious dress sense.
Hey I am a council employee. Don't you dare ban ML from wearing tight lycra shorts
Hey I am a council employee. Don't you dare ban ML from wearing tight lycra shorts
.......
5.58pm. Mayor's PA must be doing overtime!
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