Monday, November 21, 2005

Can't see the forest for the trees

Whenever the issue of Council finances (and, by extension, Wanganui's finances) arise, reference is inevitably made to the forestry investments, how it seems they're not going to realise an instant cash bonanza, and how the how Diva-led Council have "exposed" this startling fact for the first time. As one anonymous commenter remarked:

On the forestry estimates, it's important to remember that the WDC went and got a special dividend from Wanganui Gas in 2004 to cover the shortfall in their forestry dividends that year. They didn't tell Wanganui that they had advice in March 2004 (according to the Mitchell Report) that there would be NO dividends that year, the two after that and that the $18m of estimated future revenue was now worth $4m. That's a lie that they were eventually caught out on and they should swing.
Several other anonymii have noted that Council minutes prove the above commenter, and others who accuse past Councils of a cover-up, wrong. From the 2004-5 annual plan:


Other revenue is lower than anticipated due to income from forestry. The LTCCP 2003-2013 had provision for forestry revenue of $1,700,000. This revenue is not now expected in this year due to the market conditions that surround the forestry industry.
That seems a pretty clear admission that revenue from forestry wasn't going to meet expectations.

Then there's the Minutes of an Extraordinary Meeting of the Wanganui District Council held immediately following the Meeting of the Strategy Committee on Thursday, 26 June 2003:


His Worship Mayor Poynter said that the Council's long term debt would be determined by returns from Forestry.
So there’s Chas, in 2003, clearly not attempting to quantify those returns or paint a prettier picture than reality suggested.

Further reading shows, from the June 2001 minutes:


Mr Foster, Finance and Information Groups Manager, said he was not sure that the Council would in fact reach a $37 million debt level. He explained that the debt programme would be beneficially affected by forestry harvesting and even if debt levels did reach $37 million they would be significantly reduced within two to three years of reaching that level. He did not believe a 'knee-jerk reaction' to a possible debt peak was appropriate. Mr Foster said due to forestry's impact he thought the debt level would reach only $30 million for two to three years.

Some Councillors queried the appropriateness of relying on forestry to reduce debt levels. It was thought unlikely that a ready buyer would be available even if the forest holdings were put up for sale now. However, it was noted that the Council was always open to considering offers. In discussion, it was suggested that the Council should accept the principle not to borrow when it had under-performing assets to sell. It was put forward that it be noted in the Annual Plan that the Council was always prepared to consider offers for its assets, including forestry.
This exchange, with the benefit of hindsight, does Dave Foster no favours. However, it shows, as do other minutes on Council’s website, that there has been ongoing and open debate on Council’s forestry asset, quite the contrary to the impression that our anonymous commenter, not to mention the Mayor, have been trying to create.

While Council was openly debating the likely worth of forestry assets in 2003, the NZ forestry industry website was being quite explicit, in an item headlined "Gloomy Outlook For New Year", dated 22nd December 2003:

Shipping costs and a rising New Zealand dollar are indicating a gloomy outlook for forestry exports in the short to medium term according to the latest report from the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry. The report says the average price of logs fell by five percent in New Zealand dollar terms in the March 2003 year although prices in terms of US currency rose by 13 percent...

The log export sector is in the middle of a harsh market downturn and a number of New Zealand sawmills are in difficulties. In the case of both logs and lumber market difficulties have been made worse by the high New Zealand dollar, high energy prices and rising shipping costs. The report, which looks forward through to 2007, says that restructuring and reasonable market demand should see the situation improve through the middle of the outlook period...
Since ordinary citizens rarely follow Council debate in any detail - and we have the Diva (and LawsWatch) to thank for that changing of late - it's understandable why people were taken aback by the "shock, horror, probe" "revelation" of poorly performing forestry assests post-election. But not nearly as explicable is the supposed ignorance of a radio talkback host, newspaper columnist and wannabe mayor like the Diva.

It's a favourite gambit of incoming administrations anywhere in the world to make unaffordable promises and then express horror at the supposed "unknown" level of debt they find on coming into office. This Council is no different - "A horror inheritance" screamed the press release as early as November 2004, dutifully picked up by the Chron under the equally alarmist headline "Council forestry blow-out revealed", quoting the Mayor at length and making not even the most perfunctory attempt to examine the issue independently. But then what's new?

We note that the $4 million estimated asset value was from 2004 (At this time we have unable to find out exactly how much Council invested to create this $4 million asset for Wanganui). Monkeys throwing darts do better at predicting market fluctuations than economists, so investing in forestry was always going to be a risky business. But it seems the risks - and the gloomy predictions - were well known at least as far back as 2001 and the effects of market downturns on Council's assets was being openly questioned by Councillors.

Comments on this post are now closed.

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Perhaps when the Diva of dramatics dumps another dose of diatribe on the hapless Chron., they'll think before they print. Yeah right.

Anonymous said...

That's an apt choice of illustration for the story. This mayor seems to equate "asset" with "something to flog off asap and get loads of cash to put into things that we've beaten up in referendumb hype".

After all, trees quietly growing on a hillside out of town and adding value for future generations of ratepayers just aren't very SEXY, are they? More to the point, they don't add value for this celebrity mayor and his buy election flunky.

In fact their only "value" is as part of a hysteria-inducing campaign of previous council-and-officer bashing.

Far better to beat the drum for nil rates rises, splash centres, footpaths, river boardwalks etc.

Thanks to Terry Sarten for his insights into just why we are subjected to this stuff.

Anonymous said...

Let’s hope the councillors (and Dr Warburton) skip the Diva Devotion Potion at tomorrow’s meeting and get down to the unpleasant business of debating just why a board (Wanganui District Holdings) that is supposed to be independent, and driven by maximising returns on ratepayers’ investments over the medium to long term is being bullied into taking short-term profits in order to meet the demands of one party’s political agenda.

All eyes will be on Dr Warburton who is in the difficult position of trying to get the council to commit to a WDH business plan that is clearly at odds with the Diva’s need for instant cash.

Perhaps he could recommend the council takes out some more loans and buys heaps of Lotto tickets to help fund future referendumb lolly scrambles.

Anonymous said...

Thankyou, Watchers, for the chance to read deputy Dotty's wise witty words. Now our great grandchildren will recognise the glory of her reign, and can relive the horror of the infamous snub dealt her by Wanganui District Council. They may not respect the dignity of her office, but we do!

;)

Anonymous said...

A seriously flaws analysis by Lawswatch and I didn't vote for Michael Laws so no guilt by association, please.
Let me take LW to task because I'm an interested spectactor to council affairs and was one who raised alarums before the 2004 elections. They were not covered by any media or accepted by any councillor.

The factual background is straightforward and I've had the chance to read the 'Mitchell Report' to verify my concerns.

1. Council put together its LTCCP in 2003 which covered 2003-13 and it included its forestry investments as returning over $18 million over that time period.
2. It was a misleading estimate from the get-go because it did not point out the reinvestment required in forestry after 2013. It is assumed council would have replanted because they rejected the option of selling the forests around that same time.
3. Cr Palmer and others including the mayor and D Foster are publicly on recortd as saying that the forestry investments would keep debt under control. D Foster made this clasim during the Sarjeant Gallery extension debate (find those minutes LW anmd print out what they say) while Chas and Palmer said during the 2004 election campaign that forestry would keep debt under control (as per the 2003 LTCCP).
3. According to both Laws and Mitchell, the inner circle at council (Chas, Palmer, Stevens & Bullock) who sat on the Forestry Board knew that their investments would return much less in early 2004.
4. According to an unnamed councillor in the Mitchell Report, no-one else on Council knew this information.
5. This information included a reworking of the forestry investments and instead of $18 million they were now estimated at less than $6 million for that ten year time period.
6. D Foster acknowledges they won't get the 2004 return when council puts together its annual Plan but he gets a special dividend from Wanganui Gas to cover that shortfall. It is a one card trick. I'm amazed (no I'm not) that the council didn't ask the obvious question which I asked of them which is "where is the money coming from in 2005?"

There MUST be official papers (not released by Mitchell but which he refers to) that sets out this because he talks of them. Did Lawswatch read the Mitchell Report? I don't think so.
If LW is going to be taklen seriously and not as an anti-Laws propaganda then maybe you do what Rob Vinsen has done and admit that occasionally that Laws gets it right.
He did over forestry.

Anonymous said...

Tery Sarten's column was funny until I asked a friend who read it and he said he didn't get it.
Isn't the problem no-one understands it?

Anonymous said...

It's hard to see why anyone should get upset by the deputy mayor slagging of fellow councillors, citizens et al.

After all, she's just singing from the Vision songbook, and with the notable exception of Westwood-Bullock-Dahya, no one seemed bothered when she led the cheerleaders on his team in the code of conduct scam.

Anonymous said...

By-Election Candidates:
(according to the Chronicle story and reading between the lines).

John Martin
Alan Anderson
Carla Donson
Bob Walker (Vision)
Jodie Dalgleish (if she's drafted)

Walker is unelectable, but anyone of the rest would be OK. I can't see, for all Walker's BS, that they'll put up a candidate. As Sean Hoskins wrote this morning, they have 7-6 whichever way it goes and it isn't just Rangi Wills who votes for V on the big issues.

Anonymous said...

Like most readers of Laws atch, I have a problem. Who to believe?
There is stuff published here that is not published by the Chronicle, the Dominion or by council. Sometimes that stuff is right (eg appointments of Wanganui Inc members) and sometimes it is wrong (the infamous computer through the window at council story turnmed out to be an air conditionewr vent being replaced). I keep having fights with my friends about what to believe here and what not to, so I was wondering if you could print the entire Mitchell Report which other posters are going on about. That was an independent audit so maybe that would settle a few things?

Anonymous said...

After all, trees quietly growing on a hillside out of town and adding value for future generations of ratepayers just aren't very SEXY, are they?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When was the last time this poster was anywhere near a forestrey plantation? It's sh*t out there and isn't predicted to get much better. If that's where Wangas future is then I'd be sh*t-scared.

Anonymous said...

anon ...If that's where Wangas future is then I'd be sh*t-scared.

Graeme Hart obviously sees some advantage in forests investments.

As for this council, if a disneyland swimming pool is where wanga's future is, then we all should be really sh*t scared.

Laws Watch said...

Thanks, anonymous @ 7.31, for a reasoned and rational analysis.

When you say "Laws got it right" on forestry, it depends what you mean... if you mean he's right in saying Wanganui can't - as it once thought it could - rely on returns from forestry to get it out of it's present debt, we completely agree with you - and with him.

That's why some commenters are making the point that forests are a long term asset, and it was wrong of the previous Council to look on them as something that could be sold as soon as it was needed. You need to choose your time to sell, and 2003 (and now) is clearly not that time.

But if you mean that he was right in his professed shock and amazement, and allegations of some sinister cover-up, then we disagree - he's not that naive. He's smart enough to have done his research (easy to find, as we did, on the industry website) and to have known the real position well before November 2004. So he's being deliberately disingenuous.

The assertion that councillors other than those you named had no inkling of the situation seems to be refuted by the 2001 Minutes we've quoted. Unfortunately those that expressed doubts are not named in that document. But if they had an inkling then that something didn't add up and pursued it no further, they weren't kept in the dark by a small coterie (they could always have raised it, at any meeting or in public, at any time) but, worse, were derelict in their duty.

Anonymous said...

anon who said "Tery Sarten's column was funny until I asked a friend who read it and he said he didn't get it" needs to widen his circle of friends outside the handpicked diVision devotees.

Or is he up against the very problem identified by Sarten, ie once your "room" is filled with people exhibiting Diva-like characteristics, there's just no room for anyone else from the "real" world.

Anonymous said...

So, the anonymous commenter who just loves the word "unelectable" has come out and said it: his party chairman is unelectable. That won't be news to anyone here but it might be news to the unelectable Mr Walker who, after all, seems to have long been infected with the Sarten syndrome.

Anonymous said...

The Mitchell "report" seems to have left out as much as it contained. The value of our forestry assets was able to be worked out by anyone who can do sums. Mickey's whole argument seems to be that because Chas & Co. didn't run around like headless Mickens squawking to every media outlet who'd have them (and some that didn't want them in the first place), they're guilty of not releasing information that was already in the public domain.

So why are "events", that we the ratepayers have already spent money promoting, being considered in secret?

Pot, kettle, Mickey.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Tery Sarten's column was funny until I asked a friend who read it and he said he didn't get it.
Isn't the problem no-one understands it?"

So, you thought it was funny until your friend explained to you that it wasn't.

Vote Vision, by any chance? They have a whole section telling you what to enjoy.

Anonymous said...

Here's the $2.75 million dollar question: will ratepayer Rangi vote with Vision when it comes to crunch time and Mickey wants to borrow to build the Splash Centre extension?

Anonymous said...

Here's the $2.75 million dollar question: will ratepayer Rangi vote with Vision when it comes to crunch time and Mickey wants to borrow to build the Splash Centre extension?

9:26 PM, November 21, 2005

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

They'll all vote for the proposal to borrow in the short-term because it makes financial sense.

Anonymous said...

In the short term? Stop lying. The agenda for todays F&A meeting makes it pretty clear that asset sales are not to be rushed, if they are to go ahead at all.

Anonymous said...

Question: Did the diVision councillors agree with Mickey's lies, when he said that asset sales would be completed before any capital spending went ahead? If they agreed then, are they prepared to become liars themselves by doing the opposite? On the one hand, principle, (the strong suspicion is that they have none) versus expedience (as defined by panicking Mickey).

How's the River Dog piss-up coming along? Jimmy Barnes ticket sales reached break-even point yet?

All of Jimmy's other tour venues are pubs: modest little gigs, easy to sell. He'd've been better off playing the Red Lion.

Anonymous said...

Have to agree with posting on the borrowing decision. If you have an asset you know you're going to sell and are in the process of dping so, what's the problem with borrowing on that collateral, getting the Splash centre completed and the riverfront straight away. Smart thinking I would have thought.

Anonymous said...

The new Ratepayers Assn head in the Chron this morning saying that the council are doing a great job. They have well over 1300 members so that's a solid chunk of electoral suppot to count on come the by-election.

Anonymous said...

To LawsWatch at 8.27pm.
Why not get the Mitchell Report posted so we can all see? Not edited highlights but the whole thing? The damning part of the earlier post was that Foster was saying debt would be about $20m less than current projections. I also read in my last council agenda that the last council had $3m of uncollected debts which is proof of some real slackness in their finance department. Laws has cleaned up and cleaned out that section and not before time. Good on him.

Anonymous said...

Make no mistake, it is not short term borrowing that is being proposed here, and Wanganui Holdings make that pefectly clear in their objections to the proposal.

Anonymous said...

I have no problem with Mickey blaming Barb Bullock & Co. for not talking about the poor forestry prices. So long as he tells us exactly how ticket sales are going for Bikes Broads Booze and Barnesy. Please go on the radio and tell us the bad news Mickey, and while you're at it why don't you share your plan for Queens Park?

Anonymous said...

Question LW:
If the councillors from the previous council did know about their forestry investments heading south, how come David Foster was still telling them during the Sarjeant extension debate mid-2004 that they could afford it because forestry would keep peak debt under control? I'm also amazed to read that he was telling council it would only have a peak debt of $37 million - that's $17m less than the new finance people found. Who was in charge of this guy?

Anonymous said...

The cash flow problem was created by the Vision insistence on a rates take freeze. They were warned about it by Council officers, who might as well have been talking to Dotty's Easter Island statues for all the good their advice did. Fine, fair enough, Wanganui voted for a rates freeze. However, now this same "Vision" crowd want to borrow (they say it's "in the short term", but they're again being contradicted by Wanganui Holdings, who will manage any sales according to their charter, not Mayoral diktat). Laws has already signalled a rates increase for this year, and with wholesale interest rates going up, it is unlikely that the market will be advantageous for the sale of property in the short term. This new Council is only 13 months into their term, and already the promises they made of fiscal responsibility are trashed, and as for a rates freeze, forget it. It's borrow and spend, spend and borrow, all the while having the NBR of all things as the cheif cheerleader.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen any up to date valuations of the forestry investment? What do they expect to get in yearly dividends (if anything) from now on.
On what I've read here, the mayor seems to have got this one right and what happened to the council officers who prepared all that crap? Do they still work there?

Anonymous said...

Wanganui Ratepayers Association chairman Russell Fleming said Wanganui was leading the country in the use of referenda.

“It’s entirely appropriate that the public at large, rather than a few councillors, will have their say on the H question and I will not be at all surprised if the result proves similar top that for the art gallery extension when a few endeavoured to impose their will on the whole community,’ Mr Fleming said.


Is this what the ratepayers association really thinks?

Anonymous said...

If you have an asset you know you're going to sell and are in the process of dping so, what's the problem with borrowing on that collateral?

Paying interest, that's what's wrong with it. What's the interest on $2.75 million over a week? About $3,700. Over a year? $192,000. So you can see why Wanganui Holdings don't want a bar of Mickey's new promise and borrow voodoo.

Anonymous said...

So you can see why Wanganui Holdings don't want a bar of Mickey's new promise and borrow voodoo.

11:04 AM, November 22, 2005

Where did you read this? Or did you make this up too?

Anonymous said...

I'll suppose we'll be seeing a new witch hunt soon to discover why the previous council/mayor/officers didn't include in their future debt projections that the incoming mayor/council/officers would do a u-turn and actually INCREASE debt/interest levels.

Next thing our favourite commenter will be in here telling us they should "swing" for this oversight, no doubt.

Anonymous said...

Where did you read this? Or did you make this up too?
12:00 PM, November 22, 2005

The agenda for the F&A cttee meeting today makes it pretty clear.

Anonymous said...

"Where did you read this? Or did you make this up too?"

Wanganui District Holdings said:

"While recognising there is a cashflow-driven shorter term programme to divest property deemed surplus to council's operating requirements, the holding company's over-riding driver remains to maximise returns over the medium to long term."

And I only had to look at the next post down. Next.

Anonymous said...

Has everyone here voted on the polls? They are quite interesting now a few more people have bothered to vote.

Anonymous said...

"Wanganui's Deputy Mayor, Cr Dot McKinnon, graduates this week with a Masters of Business Administration following two years of exhaustive study."

That explains the foot-in-mouth: she's just tired, poor thing.

Anonymous said...

It's really none of Wanganui Holdings's concern whether the council borrows or for what. But they are obviously concerned about the political interference that is directing them to sell assets for immediate cashflow reasons when their business plan is maximise returns over the medium and long term. ie the two are incompatible.

This smells of classic political interference by the mayor with the business of an agency that is supposed to bring best business practice management (not most expedient politics) of the asset portflio.

What is interesting is that the new CEO was having to deal with that while wearing two hats and he finds himself having to lay it on the line for his political masters after only a matter of weeks in the job.

Anonymous said...

They are quite interesting now a few more people have bothered to vote.

Some more than once on both sides, and therin lies the problem: it seems untainted information is simply too valuable to be shared with just anybody.

Anonymous said...

They are quite interesting now a few more people have bothered to vote.

Some more than once on both sides, and therin lies the problem: it seems untainted information is simply too valuable to be shared with just anybody.

6:11 PM, November 22, 2005

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Very suspicious. John Martin and Jodie Dalgleish are equal 2 weks ago & suddenly Martin has 30 more votes. Its been rigged and John Martin, it does you no favours. I was talking to the wife of a Vision supporter Sat night and she said they wanted Martin to be the candidate and then went all coy when I asked why, and said she's daid too much. They think he's malleable.

Anonymous said...

There must be some really dumb people who post here because 8% of $2.5 million is less than the construction index rising AT 10-15% per year and delaying the Splash Centre for 2-3 years. Basic maths.

Anonymous said...

Did the Diva get his way in F&A today over the loans?