Saturday, October 08, 2005

Open thread


Comments on this post are now closed.

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Following on from potential vision candidates for the by-election.
They won't put up one because they don't need one. As anon has pointed out they have Rangi wills and Don McGregor onside most of the time. Ray Stevens is never there. And on McGregor - he's the councillor prior to the election who said seel Sarjeant works to finance the Splash Centre and was quoted as such in the Chronicle.

Laws Watch said...

While not disagreeing with your analysis, anon above, wouldn't they want to stand someoneone anyway because:
a) It looks bad not to; and
b) A strong-voiced dissenter might just provide leadership to other councillors who presently keep quiet on things, as well as figurehead for community dissent (albeit a one with their hands tied).

And before some other anon wades in, no, we don't mean that non-Visioners disagree with everything (or even most things) Vision does but votes with them anyway. Just that on some things, it's easier to go along than rock the boat.

Anonymous said...

While Vision acts in concert, the independents don't. We'd all know what Ron Janes thinks of Councillors if Sue Westwood had thought to keep quiet. Only her interjection (perhaps someone else would have piped up, but we'll never know) kept that document from public scrutiny.

I think Don McGregor could have used his "anti-h" position more effectively to get the pro-Wanganui faction within Vision to vote against putting Councillor numbers on the 06 referendumb.

Ray Stevens needs to get on his backside. His absence has led to Vision winning on a casting vote on several occasions now. It's all very well mouthing off in the Chron., but you have to walk the talk, Ray.

Councillors shouldn't have to put up with this bullshit, but since Laws has imposed his idea of politics on Wanganui, they've no choice.

Anonymous said...

I was 10.00pm anon (I'll call myself Rain from now on, in deference to the pluvial nature of Wanganui) so in reply to Laws watch ...
Your discusson assumes that the non-vision councillors act as a united block when they don't. It was interesting to see on this blog, for example, that Crs McGregor and Westwood voted for Cr McKinnon as chairperson of the strategy committee over Cr Stevens.
Then there is the Q of whether a new councillor elected in a by-election could provide "leadership". That is unlikely given that all the non-vision councillors seem very independent and some like Cr McGregor and Cr Dahya are chairmen in recognition, one assumes, of their seniority.
Looking at the candidates you'd need a non-vision equivalent of, dare I say it, the current mayor and that would be someone with the ability to win an argument or hold a room, which he can do whatever his other faults. That's what would make me pessimistic as to expecting any change because from what I've seen John Martin is not that person or any of the other candidates that failed last year.
I see there is some support for Carla Dodson on the poll but that is misplaced because she polled very poorly in 2004. Only a strong independent would have a show and of all the rest only the art gallery lady Jodie Dalgleish appeals. That she isn't an artist but a businesswoman is definitely in her public favour, and unlike John Martin she has taken this mayor on directly.
However the problem remains and that is that the vision/ratepayers bloc have idential policies and would still be the majority around the council table no matter who won the by-election.
Rain.

Anonymous said...

Results of possibly by-election candidates at 2004 Wanganui District Council elections;

Urban Ward:
(Last elected Cr (9th)- Westwood 5592)

Campion 5386 (10th of 30 candidates)
Adams 4837 (12th)
Street 4772 (14th)
M-Anyon 4104 (17th)
Donson 3216 (20th)
Milnes 1566 (27th)

Approx, 16,000 voted in the urban ward so Campion got approx 33% of the vote.
In the mayoralty, John Martin got 5389 votes (or 27% of total urban/rural votes).
On the basis of the above, and given her strong Zonta and NCW affiliations, the best by-election chance would be Margaret Campion, a strong supporter of the arts and the Gallery extension.

Anonymous said...

At the risk of being flamed, can I go completely off subject and suggest that all parties in this blog get along and see Turpin The Musical. I went to the opening night last night and had a ball. Congratulations to ALL the cast and crew for a stunning effort.

It is a world premiere we can all agree on as it hasnt cost the ratepayer anything and is totally apolitical. You can even order your tickets online so you dont have to leave this blog for too long!

Visit www.turpinthemusical.com

Anonymous said...

Is this serendipity or what?

I've just been catching up on the by-election discussion and it occurred to me that Nygllhuw would be a very likely candidate for Vision -- good business record, arts interests, lots of "community service" on his CV and definitely one of the inner circle around Michael -- and now here is is!

Feel free to share your thoughts on this Nygllhuw, or anyone else. The blog seems to be a nice flame-free zone at the moment.

Anonymous said...

Refreshing isn't it?
People who disagree with each other discussing issues with maturity.
It won't last.
Nigel would be a good Vision candidate

Anonymous said...

"Jodie Dalgleish appeals. That she isn't an artist but a businesswoman is definitely in her public favour,"

She is both, but I take your point. Jodie would stand up quite easily to the "arty-farty" jibes, anyway.

Nygwllhuw would probably join the pro-Wanganui faction in Vision, so I can't see him getting Mickey/Bob's endorsement.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to anonymous at 10.31am because I hadn't realised Ross had done so poorly. I still think that with his councl experience, strong opposition to anything this mayor does, and strong pro-arts bearing, that he is the superior candidate. The others would take too long to get up to speed but he would hit the ground running. I'm sure he would also inspire the other councillors who need energy.
So I'm sure 2004 was just a hiccup and that Ross will be back. He's a legend and people in Wanganui are coming to appreciate that.

Anonymous said...

Hell, has anyone seen the latest mess on the St John's Hill engineering disaster?

Transit seems to be up to their necks in that one.

Anonymous said...

STOP PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT

Mickey Mayor, saviour of the airwaves, on tomorrow's morning show, presents an exclusive interview with Michael Wallace, to determine once and for all: Michael, do you prefer blonde hitch-hikers, or brunettes?

Anonymous said...

Get a clear view of the St Johns Hill Transit debacle while driving down Wicksteed Street. What a disaster!

Anonymous said...

Yes, they've made a right mess of it, haven't they. They're going to have to either abandon it or spend a lot of money, and my bet is there won't be much of a view once they're done. Stupid bastards.

Anonymous said...

It should have been in the referendumb. No way would we have voted for it. That would have made transit sit up & take notice, oh yes siree.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how Errol Christiansen will sleep tonight?

Anonymous said...

Let's be clear, there is no ratepayers money involved - but I presume we all pay tax and fuel tax. And I have to say the mayor made it brutally clear to Transit that there's no way WDC is going to stump up for any problems with it into the future.

Anonymous said...

He did, & he was backed to the hilt by his council so - in deference to the maturity evident -we shall agree that this was A GOOD THING.
There's an interesting council paper on how it all happened and it was due to a cycling strategy agreed in 2003, and Transit then deciding to do their own thing. A disaster all round because that's money that could be spent on the treacherous intersection at the bottom of the hill. The initial cost was $200K but what would the estimates be now I wonder?

Anonymous said...

Can this little gem from today’s Sunday Star Times possibly be by the same Michael Laws who managed to plaster his kid and step-kids over a sickening Women’s Day spread to promote his bit-part chasing the cash in that trash TV show?


Yeah, but there's humiliation that is gormless and then humiliation that is planned. Auckland radio station "The Dredge" decided on the planned variety in assembling three desperate mums and their seven-year-old kids, then subjecting them to 72 hours of endless repetition of the Axel F/Crazy Frog madness. All to win $3000 which just goes to show even poor white trash has its price.

I might have had more sympathy had the winning mum entered the contest because she was dirt poor and needed to cash to feed and/or clothe the family. But she wanted the money to buy a hot rod. The kid was just dragged along in the pursuit.

There are not many times I find myself in agreement with Children's Commissioner Cindy Kiro and a fundamentalist pastor. But we all came to the same conclusion. This was child abuse.

Anonymous said...

"In the year 2000/01 it was expected that about $1.8 billion would be spent on state highway and local road construction and maintenance. Most of this comes from taxes and charges paid by road users.

What are these taxes and charges?

Fuel excise (about 26%)
Vehicle licensing fees (about 25%)
Local rates (about 17%)
Other sources, such as the disposal of road properties and interest on funds (about 1%)
The $1.8 billion raised is spent this way:

about 30% each for state highways and local roads
18% on the New Zealand Road Safety Programme
6% on public transport
5% on administrative costs of the agencies that collect the funding, ie. Land Transport New Zealand."

So Transit will use our rates if it suits them. More spin from Mickey mayor. As for Council being unanimous in support, they can afford to be when the all they're voting for is window-dressing.

"Who decides what roads are state highways and what are local roads?

Transit New Zealand is the Crown Entity that can classify a road as a state highway or a special purpose road. All other roads are local roads controlled by territorial authorities.

Transit assesses proposals for state highways and special purpose roads against specific criteria. Only the Transit New Zealand Authority can declare or revoke the status of a road as a state highway or special purpose road."

So Transit, with one stroke of a pen, can make the new cycleway into WDC's responsibility. So what does our mayor do? Issue noisy worthless statements that probably damage our relation with Transit, and change the situation not one bit.

Spin Mickey spin.

Anonymous said...

A minor point. Mickey has been sending his e-column propaganda to the local govt. website headed by the WDC coat of arms. Is Mickey allowed to appropriate this symbol for his opinion pieces?

Anonymous said...

Rain said:

"Cr McGregor and Cr Dahya are chairmen in recognition, one assumes, of their seniority."

Or it could be recognition that they polled higher than any other councillor...

;)

Anonymous said...

"the best by-election chance would be Margaret Campion, a strong supporter of the arts..."

Seconded. Mickey walked out during her annual plan submission - he can't take criticism from anyone, but women in particular really seem to get to him.

Anonymous said...

Margaret would be a good bet - but shouldn't we be thinking about a candidate who will use the two years to build a platform for the mayoralty -- I don't know if that would interest Margaret. Does anyone know?

Anonymous said...

More lies so the maturity is over, I see.
1. The mayor did not "walk out" during Margaret Campion's (NCW) submission. He wasn't there at all if you look at the minutes;
2. Transit can't appropriate rates for THEIR projects.
Who's been hit with the stupid stick this morning? Probably the same person(s) hit with the ugly one yesterday.

Anonymous said...

It's not about the mayoralty.
It's about the best councillor now, and that is Margaret Campion.
But it should be remembered that she is no "enemy" of the mayor - he gave the eulogy at her husband Cam's funeral and again the lack of time so LW critics have had in Wanganui does not allow them to see the big picture.

Anonymous said...

Laws has shown that you don't need to be a councillor, or even suitable, to be elected mayor. If profile is what counts, there are others ways to generate one without being a councillor.

Anonymous said...

Quite right! We need a councillor to contribute around the table, not an aspirant mayor.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
More lies so the maturity is over, I see.
1. The mayor did not "walk out" during Margaret Campion's (NCW) submission. He wasn't there at all if you look at the minutes;
2. Transit can't appropriate rates for THEIR projects.
Who's been hit with the stupid stick this morning? Probably the same person(s) hit with the ugly one yesterday.

1. I heard he walked out. I stand corrected.
2. "What are these taxes and charges?
Fuel excise (about 26%)
Vehicle licensing fees (about 25%)
Local rates (about 17%)
Other sources, such as the disposal of road properties and interest on funds (about 1%)"

This was taken from their website, so if it's a "lie" (such an aggressive choice of word.) Transit are telling it.

So, was Campion's annual plan submission critical of Vision or not?

Anonymous said...

Personally I cant understand why anyone would stand for Council. It is a thankless job where you always alienate at least 50% of the community.

However to answer the question in this blog, I am not eligible to stand as I am not a New Zealand citizen, only an NZ resident. It is something Chas and I were going to rectify for years but never got around to.

Also I have way to many skeletons in my closet to put them up for public scrutiny.

Lastly, I also dont think I would do that well any way. While I have got involved with a number of organisations since leaving Council and setting up on my own, generally they are low profile roles.

Sadly, it is a sign of our modern media driven times that whoever wins the by-election will probably need to have a strong public profile behind them, rather than being motivated by public good. I dont have a favoured candidate at present, although at this point in time from all possible candidates mentioned in this blog my vote would probably go to Jodie. Mostly because I know her and respect what she has achieved.

Anonymous said...

Ouch, Nygwllhuw. How do you feel reading the bigotry against immigrants from some of Laws' staunchest supporters? Does Bob Walker's influence on Council concern you?

Anonymous said...

Nygwllhuw, if Mickey's example has taught us anything, it is that skeletons in the closet need to be brought out and displayed in the strobe light of spin, whereupon they become assets.

Anonymous said...

Funnily enough anon, no I dont have a problem with Bob. I dont like the term pommie bastard which he seems to like but I know the good things he has been involved with. Ironic that he is seen as anti-foreigner when he has been so heavily involved in overseas sister city and various japan-nz friendship organisations.

And to the next anon, no I dont plan to follow Michaels lead for exposing my foibles to the public. I think Wanganui only needs one such figure at a time. (grin) I admit even I sometimes cringe at his bluntness, but I think history will show his mayoralty as a positve one that saw Wanganui progress.

Anonymous said...

nigelhuw said "I think Wanganui only needs one such figure at a time."

Reminds me that Oscar Wilde wrote:
Person A: Bigamy is having one wife too many.
Person B: So is Monogamy...

Anonymous said...

The Mayor has used his past transgressions as a strength - whatever we might say, it worked for him.

Anonymous said...

Not so much the "transgressions", as the perception he has created that he's "fronted up" and "taken his lumps". Whether he has done so at all is debatable, to say the least, but the perception remains.

I don't think Jodie's going to stand.

Anonymous said...

Yeah but he did take his lumps!
He didn't steal any money and no-one got hurt except him and it happened nine years ago. So is he meant to pay for it his whole life?
The rest of NZ obviously don't think so otherwise he wouldn't have his own TV, radio shows, columns etc AND been elected mayor.

Anonymous said...

The reason for such widespread loathing of Laws among those in Wellington at the time of Antoinette Beck isn't so much a direct result of the forged signature but of what happened after that, and general proclivity for divisivess and troublemaking he took to Parliament from day one. Jane Clifton sums it up as gratitous recreational trouble and I have seen nothing to suggest that's not still his driving force.


Hon. Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Leader---NZ Labour): The Labour Party this afternoon will highlight the fact that this Government is on the ropes; this Government is split, divided, and characterised by sleaze and by incompetence. Where Mr Morgan left off Mr Kirton will now continue on, with his mates, his friends, and his rellies on the public purse, getting money from the Government. Mr Michael Laws, the only member in modern history to have to resign from this House for lying to it, is employed on the public purse as an adviser.

Anonymous said...

Well, I did say it was debatable, and here you are debating it.

Perhaps one day a Mobster will actually tell us which "lumps" he took. Did he resign? Only when ordered to by Winnie. Did he show signs of having changed his ways - on the contrary, the dishonesty continued with the 1996 NZ First list.

Has he since implied that, far from being a serious breach of trust, his was a little mistake, a joke that went too far. Yes.

Lumps? Where?

Anonymous said...

Lawsmob should stop bleating - as if you guys don't understand why telling lies as an elected official makes Lawsy fair game in this context you need to take off those rose-tinted glasses. Effective Laws may be, but honest? Please.

Anonymous said...

"Pay for it the rest of his life"

Yes, if you consider constant scrutiny "paying for it". No-one will ever trust his public statements without corroboration. Why should we?