Monday, August 01, 2005

Democracy on 35 cents a day

Several interesting facts emerging in comments on the last post, proving that LawsWatch is much more than just the people who post these articles - exactly as we hoped it would turn out to be. We are not "the Laws Watchers" - you all are.

One commenter, however, sent his dummy flying across the room to splutter:

Question to LawsWatch. You say you've asked all these questions, but how? Through this bog (sic) (in which case don't expect an any answers), formally by letter, or under the Official Info Act (which wouldn't apply to Westgate because its a commercial entity). Why are you trying to bullshit us that you have any influence at all?
As another commenter surmised, we use the same methods any media might. And before the dummy takes another unscheduled flight, we can point you to any number of articles citing the legitimacy of online media, and indeed some which suggest it is superseding older forms, such as this analysis from Wired.

Unlike most other media, however, we generally inform our audience as to who we've asked and what we're asking before we know whether we'll receive a reply, because oftentimes silence speaks louder than words. Older media, deprived of the ability to get considered answers to legitimate questions, tend to fill their pages with PR bumpf (or pointless fluff often designed to blatantly sell stuff) rather than admit "no one would answer our questions" because they feel they'd look impotent.

But whereas shamelessly flogging books written by a millionaire is one thing, recycling the Spin Fairy's view of the Council's activities is quite another.

We ask on your behalf, and our influence derives completely from the fact that in asking, we represent you. Yes, even you, whose dummy we can see quivering with barely suppressed disdain.

We'll ignore the comments debating the merits or otherwise of a gallery extension and instead pick something from the comments attempting a rudimentary psychoanalysis of the Diva's modus operandi:

I'm not sure that your mayor doesn't reflect what his community wants. As an interested observer, he latched onto the unpopularity of the Sarjeant Gallery project, clearly read the time for a change theme, targeted arts activists (who are never mainstream), said only what any pollie would say over POW (remember the whole council rejected POW, not just his Vision colleagues) and his nil rate increase is what all ratepayers want everywhere. It's called populist politics.
Indeed it is, learned at the knee of the greatest populist of them all, Winston Peters. (Where is that party list Winston? Did it blow out of your pocket on the back of that bike?). And as the rates demands flutter into letterboxes all over Wanganui, some people are finding they are indeed saving money. As another commenter said:

I'm paying $127 less than last year. If this is populism, then give me more.
So... time for another poll. First, though, cast your minds back to a Simpsons episode (repeating somewhere on a TV channel as you read this) in which teachers strike over the dreadful condition of buildings and equipment. There's a scene at a town meeting which sums up politics in a nutshell:

The debate quickly descends to Mrs Krabappel saying "More books" (crowd: murmurs of support, "books... good"); then Principal Skinner says "More taxes" (Crowd: "taxes.... bad"... and so on, over and over).

Of course that essential dichotomy can be finessed a little one way or the other, but The Simpsons did a pretty good job of illustrating the public's attitude to spending on services - it's absolutely essential. Just so long as it's not my money.

On the other hand, surveys repeatedly show a surprisingly large number of NZers are prepared to pay more taxes if it would mean better services and infrastructure.

So what of the people of Wanganui? Do the majority agree with anonymous - if it means an extra 35 cents a day in your pocket, by all means squeeze the budget so tightly that even fixing roads becomes unaffordable?

Or that a rates increase might be alright if services and facilities were improved (and let's leave aside for now the question of what facilities and pretend that it's either demolishing the Sarjeant and building a stock car track, or gutting the Mayoral offices - complete with luxury WC - and turning it over to candle making workshops, depending on your preference).

Or that things were about right as they were?


I'd prefer:
Higher rates and better services.
Lower rates and fewer services.
To keep things as they are.



Free polls from Pollhost.com

And by the way, does the whole Mayoral toilet saga remind anyone else just a little of that classic farce, Clochmerle?

Comments on this post are now closed. The poll remains open.

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yeah, why doesn't Winnie trust us with his list? Are they such a band of no-hopers or does he just not trust them either?

Higher rates but only if it means better services.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, LawsWatch, but looks like we're going to be kept hanging a while yet, despite what Winnie said back on July 14 about the list being almost ready but may not be announced before the July 31 launch.

Look what just came from Winston First HQ:

There has been no announcement yet about the New Zealand First Candidates.
The only places confirmed are those of the existing New Zealand First Caucus.

The last nomination day for both list and electorate candidates is not until 23 August 2005. I would expect that an announcement will be made sometime around that date.
Yours sincerely

Carmen Hansen
Adviser/Researcher
Rt Hon Winston Peters’ Office

Anonymous said...

Just how many times has Laws redecorated the mayoral dunny since he took office? Someone seemed to be implying at least twice.

But no press release from Council telling us what a marvellous colour he's chosen. Surely the ratepayers deserve a tour of the newly beautified shithouse. I'm sure if the Chronicle's looking for a story they do a lovely piece.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if the ratepayers supply his precious 3-ply.

Anonymous said...

Re the Winston First list ..

Seems he's playing games as usual and has already started leaking the names of the more glam candidates ie Susan Baragwanath.

Winnie's probably astute enough to know that if the Diva is on the list, the less time the media (and LawsWatch) have to pull out the dirty linen the better.

Anonymous said...

Is this the dirty linen that allowed Laws to win the mayoralty handsomely and lead a team to dominate council. We should all that kind of dirty linen. And if you really want to see DL - check out Awatere-Huata, Police pack rape cases, speeding cop cars ... there is a saying that misusing extreme language will eventually debase it.

Anonymous said...

Yeah it's the cult of celebrity. You MUST have a past - its mandatory if you want to achieve. And that's an international rule of thumb, not simply a local one.

Anonymous said...

By the way, I hear that Westgate have sent council a letter in response to last Thursday's claims & counter-claims. A bit of a flap up around the CE's office y'day when it came in. Anyone know the contents??

Anonymous said...

Yes, Laws really should have taken his lumps at the time instead of weaselly pretending he'd done nothing wrong. I mean, let's face it, he'd only illegally mis-appropriated public funds and lied about it, which is pretty standard behaviour for a politician.

Anonymous said...

no he didn't you dork. read the background & you'll find he was cleared by all agencies & no public monies were involved. Inventing history does you no credit.

Anonymous said...

Yeah its wrong to talk illegality. If it was, it would have been prosecuted as such and no-one was. It was certainly an error of judgement on Laws' part but he took his lumps and has moved on. Some people here should too. It distracts totally from what's important.

Anonymous said...

The Westgate letter - what's the story?

Anonymous said...

An LGOIA request could well turn up the Westgate letter. Depends whether it would be considered "commercially confidential", but if it's Westgate's thoughts on WDC & PoW I can't see that meeting the conditions. In any case, this is yet another rumour: perhaps there is no letter.

Anonymous said...

There's a letter. Council last week resolved to ask Westgate so there will be a letter. Tuffy says westgate would prefer to deal with POW and, apparently, told council that. Was talking to a councillor over the weekend.

Anonymous said...

Tuffy basically said that he was going to step back as PoW's spokesperson. That isn't the same as PoW withdrawing. It's even possible that with the law as it stands, Council may have to defer to PoW. No-one wants to go to court, of course...

Anonymous said...

Why would they go to court?

Anonymous said...

Perhaps it'll be in the Chron. tomorrow. Or perhaps there's an important cake story about to break.

Anonymous said...

Roosters - the Chron needs more roosters.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, why would the POW saga end up in court? What new risk have ratepayers been exposed to?

Anonymous said...

They'd go to court, I guess, to prevent political interference in a private business matter.

Anonymous said...

Sue Westwood pointed out that Councillors had no business getting involved.

Anonymous said...

Friday's Chron:Mr Laws said Port Taranaki had said it wanted to deal with WDC, not PoW. Mr Churton said he had been told differently.

The Spin Fairy will have her work cut out for her if the letter says Westgate wants to nail its colours to Capt Tuffy's mast.

Could the good ship Vision be headed for a nasty, public stranding on the bar?

Anonymous said...

Like Westgate's going to buy into some sort of popularity contest? If there is a letter from Westgate, it'll probably just describe the lay of the land as they see it. Or, more likely, not even that. Would I tell my business associates what I think of them? Not to mention the fact that Westgate can (and probably will) deal with whomever they like. The way Laws has personalised the debate, I won't be surprised if they announce they're going to deal with Napier instead.

Anonymous said...

If Westgate come out in favour of PoW do you think Laws will call them nutters?

Anonymous said...

So Westgate's letter will destroy either Laws'credibility or Tuffy Churton's. Someone is leaving town soon, and let's all hope it is who we hope it is. The Chron won't be able to ignore that!

Anonymous said...

I doubt Westgate's letter will do any such thing. Neither Laws nor Tuffy will be forced to do anything. In the extrememly unlikely event that they express a preference, it would be couched in such suitably diplomatic terms as to allow either side to claim "victory".

Anonymous said...

One thing's for sure, if the letter is unfavourable to Vision, good luck getting a look at it before the next Harbour Committee meeting.

Anonymous said...

If Laws has bitten off more than he can chew here (or perhaps he's out of his depth), Council as a whole must take some responsibility for dealing with Bill Pearce's Code Complaint so poorly. They effectively gave Laws the go-ahead, as opposed to the short sharp jerk on the choker chain that was required.

Anonymous said...

But what if the letter -
a) expresses a preference?
b) then says that preference is Port of Wanganui (Tuffy)?
Resignation material, surely.

Anonymous said...

Oh dear. Check out the WDC website.

Anonymous said...

The letter when released will clear Laws completely and dare I say it unequivocally. While you may all have wet dreams about taking him down, this forum has done nothing, secretly found nothing and exposed nothing - and this is because there is nothing to find!

What we have is a mayor and councillors who are doing exactly what they said they would during the election and where there is doubt seeking public input BEFORE making a final decision. OK so sometimes ML should count to 10 before he speaks, but you can never claim to not know exactly where you stand with him.

Even the Chron has better sources than you guys and they have the rooster too! My last post and visit and I have even removed you from my favourites list.

Anonymous said...

So there you go. They want Tuffy's idea, but not Tuffy himself. Nice.

Anonymous said...

No, they don't want Tuffy's idea because according to the press release it wasn't even Tuffy's. It was/is Westgate's. How many lies has Tuffy told now - I can count four big ones. That he had other ports backing for the bluewater port; that he had Macquaries backing; that he had a buyer for Westbourne; that he had Westgate's support. All false. But then convicted crims & bankrupts aren't often the most reliable of sources, are they?
I like LawsWatch but some of these blog entries are just wet dreams.

Anonymous said...

I am broke so I borrow $100. I now owe $100 but have $100 in my pocket. I decide to lend this $100 to my friend who will pay me $5 a year to use it. Unfortunately the person I borrowed it from charges me $8 a year to use it. So I have $100 that is costing me $3 a year and the $100 is also decreasing in value as inflation means it buys less every year as well.

If you replace $100 with $20-25 million, then $5 with 5% and $8 with 7.7% you get Wanganui Gas costing the ratepayer around $1.4 million a year to own AND decreasing in value when they borrow money to pay the last Council dividends it needed to cover operating overheads.

Anonymous said...

WDC story:
Mr Laws said it was revealing that Westgate had stated in their August 1 letter that –

"Our position has been clearly and unequivocally stated from the commencement of our interest in the project.

"We will work with the Wanganui District Council (WDC) to develop and arrive at an inland port concept that will best serve the Wanganui District."

Only two paragraphs of the Westgate letter have been included in the website spin. They don't express a preference for WDC vs PoW, just say that they will work with WDC.

ie there's nothing in what we have been shown to prove what the first paragraph of the website story says, "that Westagate would prefer to work with WDC".

Is this a case of Tuffy's apples vs Michael's apples (ie have both WDC and PoW got the same "deals" on the table) or is it apples and oranges?

Before we all take the Spin Fairy's bait, let's ask:

1. Does the rest of the letter mention PoW?

and

2. Does it rule out dealing with them?

C'mon on Michael, don't be shy. Show us the whole letter & show the Chron the whole letter.

Tell us just WHAT WDC is offering to do with Westgate beyond perhaps expediting zoning or other local body functions. Are you seriously proposing to Westgate that WDC will get involved in building the infrastructure required, buy the straddle cranes, etc. And do it all on the slowly sinking dump site? If so it's time to come clean with the ratepayers.

Anonymous said...

I'm an interested spectator in this. I'd be betting that the Chronicle have the entire letter (that's what you do when you release a press statement)so a little Media 101 wouldn't go astray here. There is another option. Ask Tuffy. Which reminds me, have we got a reply back from POW to the Qs posed by LawsWatch?

Anonymous said...

Our shares in Wanganui Gas, as peak oil approaches, will get more valuable, but the Splash Centre will deteriorate and cost even more money in ten years. What's wrong with swimming in the sea?

Anonymous said...

If Westgate's letter really doesn't "sink" PoW Laws is going to look pretty stupid (what's new?). My guess is it's worded so that both sides will get something from it. Show us the letter Mickey.

Anonymous said...

My guess is it's worded so that both sides will get something from it.

You're probably right.

Anonymous said...

I see Dutton is getting hot & bothered again. I fully acknowledge being a paid up member of the Laws fanclub and I've read the Westgate release on the council website and is that 3 or 4 losses now for you, Mattie-boy? Quit while you're behind. It's getting embarrassing.

Anonymous said...

What's ambiguous about the quotes in the Laws press release from Westgate. Not much!

Anonymous said...

What's ambiguous about the quotes in the Laws press release from Westgate.

It's not what's in the quotes, but what's not in them.
ie (read our lips) Does Westgate rule out "dealing" with PoW?
ie Have they bought into Mickey's beauty contest?

And while you're at it, Mickey, show us the council's letter to Westgate.

Matt Dutton said...

Anonymous said...
I see Dutton is getting hot & bothered again. I fully acknowledge being a paid up member of the Laws fanclub and I've read the Westgate release on the council website and is that 3 or 4 losses now for you, Mattie-boy? Quit while you're behind. It's getting embarrassing.

4:36 PM

What a jerk. I said nothing of the sort, but then you're always short on facts. Auction houses. Selling the nation's heritage. This I care about an answer to. I'd like more info about "The Heart of the City". I don't care who gets to build the inland port, and this is the third time I've said so.

This is the nth time you've had a go at me personally, incidently. What's the matter? Are you upset?