RIP David Lange, 1942 - 2005
Regardless of one's political views, certainly an intelligent, entertaining man; and a great New Zealander with this country's best interests at heart. Someone who, on a personal level (he was known to a few of The Watchers) was excellent company, immensely knowledgeable, and enormously obliging.
And a man who, while he was laying on his deathbed, the Diva accused of "enormous pettiness... bitter, vindictive and demonstrate(d) that he liked very few people..."
Pot... kettle. A whole shopful of pots, in fact.
Updates:
Tom Scott talks about Lange (audio from Newstalk ZB).
Memoirs of a former PM (video interview with Lange).
Plaudits flow for Lange.
No official funeral for Lange.
Anthony Hubbard charts Lange's career.
Lange "a citizen of the world".
Update II: Lange helped Wanganui's sewage, according to Monday's Chron.
Further update: From a post to the nz.politics newsgroup:
Great Moments in NZ Television No. 2: Lange humiliates Michael Laws
A year or so ago, David Lange and Michael Laws were being interviewed by Kim Hill on that (now defunct) Sunday talk show.
Laws, obviously realising he was intellectually and verbally out of his depth, looked more and more uncomfortable as the programme went on. Lange had trenchantly and unassailably condemned the trivial content and childish tone of the statements coming from the National, NZ First and ACT "opposition".
For some reason (probably a misguided sense of pride) Laws just had to say something, anything, in reply.
Laws: "Well, Helen Clark can be childish, you have to agree?"
Stony silence from Lange.
Laws, clearly shaken by the implacable Lange, says: "Surely?"
By way of reply, Lange can't help expressing his disdain for the vacuous Laws: he simply grimaces, as if he's just taken in a mouthful of horribly corked wine. Mortified, Laws has to just sit there while the credits roll.
(As the credits rolled, this writer swears he could hear the tell-tale sibilance of some members of the TV floor crew pissing themselves with cruel laughter.)
Comments on this post are now closed.
37 comments:
whatever Lange's charms. he was a vindictive old trout as anyone who has read his bio will attest. Ask his former Labour colleagues incl the former MP for Wanganui, Russell Marshall, who was a fine & decent man but savaged by Lange in his book.
Michael Laws - I give you credit for being right about David Lange. He betrayed Labour and let loose Douglas, Prebble and all the other mad dogs of the New Right.
The mayor deserves praise for his complete honesty.
David Lange's legacy was the economic structure we now have.
Some epitaph.
I read the SMH's obituary today describing our former PM as a loner. I think that was probably fair - he was undoubtedly intelligent, humourous and had a biting wit.
His legacy will be the anti-nuclear policy but ironically it was not his. He wanted to find a way out of the Anzus impasse but Labour's caucus kept him on the straight. He was a very late convert but a good salesman thereafter.
His other legacy - forgotten by everyone - was 'Tomorrow's Schools' in his capacity as education minister in 1988. He intensely disliked the teacher unions and hoped that parents would become more involved in running their own schools. Unfortunately that was not a success and has led to the decile 1 schools that no-one wants to teach in, plus the white flight that has created Wanganui High School.
His brief tenure as prime minister along with his death should not blind us to his flaws. I think if our mayor described him as "petty" then he probably escaped lightly!
A miserable failure always has a few bad words for shining success. Laws was always outclassed by Lange.
Well said last anon
There are times, quite often really, when this blog of Carol's betrays itself. David Lange's death is a case in point. I read the NZPA story which had asked Laws what he thought of the former
PM's BOOK. The quotes in this blog are his reaction and, from reading Richard Griffin's review in today's Herald on Sunday, I would say that our mayor's views would seem to be universal. That is that Lange's book is venomous and vindictive and I think the earlier anon's point about Russell Marshall is salient. Russell was the best MP Wangani has ever had and he did not deserve the cruel putdown of Lange in his book.
I saw that TV show and that's not an accurate rendition of what occurred. Laws was taking Lange to task for belittling every other party leader at the 2002 election but treating Clark as a sacred cow. They'd clashed all programme.
... and they weren't being interviewed by Kim Hill - Factual Inaccuracy #65 Lawswatch.
It was part of a 'Sunday' TV show of panellists who oversaw the election week and it was Lange, Laws, Pam Corkery and the Chch columnist (Bennett?).
Laws actually had a go at Kim Hill and that was what had me laughing - she had i/ved English and he said she had "a physical version of Tuorette's ..." with all her twitching & eye-rolling, etc.
The real scrap - according to the Dominion - happened later when Hill said she'd never have Laws on her show, and he said that was just as well because if he was on it would reduce the usual viewing audience by half, given that only he and Kim's mum watched it. Yeow.
Tell us, Carol. Why are you so obsessed with Michael.
"Does he make you horny, baby?"
I read the NZPA story which had asked Laws what he thought of the former PM's BOOK.
Yes it is, and a person generous of spirit, kind, and open to the views of others presumably couldn't write a book that was "petty" and "vindictive", now could they? Certainly there was no qualifying acknowledgement of such by the Diva.
For example, "The Demon Profession", which repeatedly descends to the schoolboy tactic of poking fun at the appearance of people who opposed the Diva's politics, could be labelled "petty" and "vindictive", perfectly reflecting it's author.
Factual Inaccuracy #65 Lawswatch.
We're quoting the original poster to nz.politics, not asserting our own facts in this instance. Perhaps someone can point us all to a transcript? We searched but couldn't find one.
Are you joking, LawsWatch?
Today's Herald On Sunday p17.
Headline -
'Lange memories frank, candid
and venomous'.
Read on ...
" In some cases when he [Lange] exercices his rancour on his colleagues, the bludgeon replaces the stiletto ...
For the 'great communicator' the awful lesson was that no-one was listening. His analysis largely blames circumstances and bloody minded colleagues for the demise of the Fourth Labour Government. From another perspective ... it may be that his innate inability to connect and personally engage with friend or foe, played a part in the eventual implosion."
Rumours aren't fact or truth, LawsWatch. Quoting such only lessens your credibility.
Joe Bennett. Joe Bennett was the columnist on that panel. Saw them and they were bloody funny. Laws gave as good as he got and he was so right about Kim Hill. Pissed myself.
CAN WE HAVE THE RESULTS OF THE POLLS???
Certainly, anonymous. All polls, inlcuding those that have disappeared into the LawsWatch archives are accessible through the special poll archive.
Every poll has a "View" button - clicking on this will take you to the running total of that particular poll.
...his innate inability to connect and personally engage with friend or foe, played a part in the eventual implosion...
Remind you of anyone else? Like we said... pot... kettle.
The differences between Lange and Laws are many and varied. But one is that Laws gathered his OWN team and led them and leads them, like it or not, still. Lange joined an existing party and when he left it, it was still there.
Does he? Does he make you horny, baby?
anon 6:40 said....
'....Russell Marshall, who was a fine & decent man.... '
This the same Russell Marshall who said he would resign if the Railway Workshops were closed ?
Anonymous said...
Does he? Does he make you horny, baby?
10:49 PM
You make me "horny". What's your name? Can we meet?
"when this blog of Carol's ..."
It's weird to those few of us who know the provenance of LawsWatch to have Michael repeating this lie in the middle of a thread caning LawsWatch for allegedly not being truthful.
Once again, with feeling, Michael and others: THIS IS NOT CAROL'S BLOG. Stick to what you know and spare us your bullshit.
Denying it, does not this any less Carol Webb's blog. Everyone know it, including RiverCity Press.
Funny - in view of the way ML always seems to be putting up comments, I thought it was this blog was a cunningly subversive plan by him and his mate Nigelhuw to provide an outlet for his mad allegations.
As someone who knows Carol it's strange that these posts always seem to peak when she's out of town and a million miles from the nearest internet connection.
And anyway, she made it clear that she'd had a enough of the blogosphere when she pulled the plug on own brave but rather pathetic effort. But I'm sure she'd be flattered to be credited with this one,though, because it's just so damn good.
River City Press can say what they like - though why they'd be commenting on their clients' business is beyond me. This is not Carol's blog. But frankly, coming from someone called anonymous, you'll have to do better than that; who did you speak to at RCP? Is it their normal practice to make public statements about their subscribers?
Yes I'd like to know to as I helped fund it.
Is someone at RCP about to have a very uncomfortable interview with their employer?
Anon said:
The mayor deserves praise for his complete honesty.
6:40 PM
Now I know you're on drugs. The mayor wouldn't recognise honesty if it looked like Antoinette Beck and had a sign on its head saying "honesty".
The mayor has been very honest about his past mistakes, paid his dues and moved on. Wanganui had the chance to judge him in 2004 after a quite vicious campaign against him which regurgitated and exaggerated much of the Napier kerfuffle. The result? He won the mayoralty and those who started the shit-throwing (Ross Mitchell-Anyon) got dealt to.
Another honesty? He owns his comments and puts them out there for public display.
Does LawsWatch? No. It hides behind anonymoity even tho' everyone knows it is Carol Webb. And, yes, the RCP did blow your cover Carol.
I don't know about the Rivercity Press (weird publication - like a school journal) but it was obvious that this web was Carol's because she's the ONLY person who goes to all councl meetings and TAPES them! Seriously, the poor lady records them.
Anon said
"...it was obvious..."
Logic was never your strong point, was it? You. Are. Wrong. And really, criticising Carol for being interested in Local Government while obsessing over her on this blog is making you look really creepy. Like a stalker or something.
It's a good thing Carol has access to verbatim transcripts of Council meetings, since they aren't even properly minuted anymore. Carol, if you're reading this, keep up the good work. Wanganui is grateful to you.
The walls have ears at Council meetings,
Don't you want to know?
The rooms have eyes all looking in,
Don't you want to know?
When Michael tell his porkie pies,
We'll catch him every time,
And post it hear, loud and clear.
For next election time.
tee hee you're not even close
Tell me, is the tin-foil working or can Carol hear your thoughts?
anon you said "he was so right about Kim Hill. Pissed myself."
You're sooo wrong. It wasn't funny. It's just that you're obviously incontinent.
Tsk, Mickey's little spindle is about to fall off. The one he spins on, we mean, though with all this talk of horniness...
Think again, dupes. Take a look at Carol's blog. It's evident she knows not the first thing about HTML (that's what makes web pages, for your slower supporters) whereas we do.
We've already said we (generally) don't think public money should be used to subsidise art when people have inadequate basic facilities (though we accept the Sarjeant's collection wasn't publicly funded). Councils who can't afford to fix potholes in River Rd shouldn't be considering Gallery extensions or upgraded swimming pools, in LawsWatch's humble opinion. Sound like Carol Webb and the arts fraternity to you, Mickey?
And lastly, we know more - much more - about you than she does. Like that conversation with the other Sean we alluded to earlier. Scary, isn't it?
"...Councils who can't afford to fix potholes in River Rd..."
Only because of the failed "nil" rates rise policy.
Post a Comment